Bava Batra 317

איתמר בן שמכר בנכסי אביו בחיי אביו ומת בנו מוציא מיד הלקוחות וזו היא שקשה בדיני ממונות ולימרו ליה אבוך מזבין ואת מפיק

it [must] have been made: [If] a son sold the estate<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' His share of the inheritance. ');">¹</span> of his father, during the lifetime of the father,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., while it was still in his father's possession. ');">²</span> and he died, his son<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The son of the dead man who sold his share in his father's estate. ');">³</span> may take [it] away from the buyers;<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' That which his father had sold them. That sale was invalid because his father's father having been alive at the time, his father was not yet in possession of the land he sold; and, since he died before his father, the land has never come into his possession. Hence the son (the grandson of the owner) inherits that land from his grandfather and is entitled therefore, to take it away from the buyers, on his grandfather's death. ');">⁴</span>

ומאי קושיא דלמא מצי אמר מכח אבוה דאבא קאתינא תדע דכתיב (תהלים מה, יז) תחת אבותיך יהיו בניך תשיתמו לשרים בכל הארץ

and this it is that presents a difficulty in civil law;<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' V. p. 691, n. 9. ');">⁵</span> for they<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The buyers. ');">⁶</span> could say to him, 'Your father has sold and you are taking away'!<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The son's title to the estate is solely due to the rights of his father, how then, could he lay any claim to that which his father himself had sold ');">⁷</span> What objection is this! Could he<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The son, the grandson of the original owner. ');">⁸</span>

אלא אי קשיא הא קשיא בן בכור שמכר חלק בכורה בחיי אביו ומת בחיי אביו בנו מוציא מיד הלקוחות וזו היא שקשה בדיני ממונות אבוה מזבין איהו מפיק וכי תימא הכא נמי אמר מכח אבוה דאבא קאתינא אי מכח אבוה דאבא קא אתיא בחלק בכורה מאי עבידתיה

not<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lit., 'perhaps'. ');">⁹</span> reply. 'I succeed to the rights of the father of [my] father'?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' And not to those of his father. As the Torah conferred upon a son the right to inherit from his father so it has also conferred upon the son's son the right to inherit from his grandfather. Hence, the inheritance has passed directly from the grandfather to the grandson who should, therefore, be entitled to seize the estate which has never come into the possession of his father who, consequently, had no right to sell it. ');">¹⁰</span> You may know [that such a plea is justified] for it is written, Instead of thy fathers shall be thy sons, whom thou shalt make princes in all the land.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Ps. XLV, 17. This proves that a person's son takes the place of his father, i.e., the grandson succeeds his grandfather. ');">¹¹</span> If, however, [a message was sent to which] objection [is to be raised, it may be] the following:<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lit., 'that (is) a difficulty'. But the message in the form given supra, as explained, presents no difficulty at all. ');">¹²</span>

ומאי קושיא דלמא מצי אמר מכח אבוה דאבא קאתינא ובמקום אב קאימנא

'A firstborn son who sold the share of [his] birthright during the lifetime of his father, and he died during the lifetime of his father, his son may take [it] away from the buyers; and this it is that presents a difficulty in civil law', [for] his father sold [it] and he takes [it] away! And if it be suggested [that] in this case<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lit., 'here'. ');">¹³</span> also [he might plead]. 'I come as successor to the rights<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lit., 'from the power'. ');">¹⁴</span> of my father's father', [it may be retorted.] 'If he comes as successor to the rights of his father's father what claim has he upon the portion of the birthright?'<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Were it not for the rights of his father who was a firstborn son, he should not have been entitled to the double portion! ');">¹⁵</span> But what difficulty [is this]? Could he not<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lit., 'perhaps'. ');">¹⁶</span>

אלא אי קשיא הא קשיא היה יודע לו עדות בשטר עד שלא נעשה גזלן ונעשה גזלן הוא אינו מעיד על כתב ידו אבל אחרים מעידין השתא איהו לא מהימן אחריני מהימני וזו היא שקשה בדיני ממונות

reply, 'I succeed to the rights of [my] father's father<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' As regards the right to be heir, ');">¹⁷</span> but take [also] the place of [my] father'?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., he inherits from his grandfather as if he himself had been the firstborn (Rashb.). V. Mishnah supra 116a. ');">¹⁸</span> If, however, [a message was sent to which] objection [is to be raised it might be] the following.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' V. p. 692 n. 10. ');">¹⁹</span> 'If a person was in a position to tender<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lit., 'knew'. ');">²⁰</span>

מאי קושיא דלמא כגון שהוחזק כתב ידו בב"ד

evidence for one<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lit., 'for him'. ');">²¹</span> [in respect of a transaction that was recorded] in a deed,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Which be signed as a witness. ');">²²</span> before he turned robber, and [then] he turned robber,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Who is ineligible to act as a witness. Cf. Ex, XXIII, 1. ');">²³</span> he is not [permitted] to attest his handwriting,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Cf. previous note. ');">²⁴</span>

אלא אי קשיא הא קשיא היה יודע לו עדות בשטר עד שלא תפול לו בירושה הוא אינו יכול לקיים כתב ידו אבל אחרים יכולין לקיים כתב ידו ומאי קושיא דלמא הכא נמי כגון שהוחזק כתב ידו בב"ד

but others may attest it.'<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' And the deed is valid. ');">²⁵</span> Now, if he [himself] is not trusted<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Presumably because the deed may have been forged. ');">²⁶</span> [shall] others be trusted!<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Granted that the signature is his, there is no proof that the deed itself is not a forgery! ');">²⁷</span> This, then, [it is] which [presents] a difficulty in civil law.

אלא אי קשיא הא קשיא היה יודע לו בעדות עד שלא נעשה חתנו ונעשה חתנו הוא אינו מעיד על כתב ידו אבל אחרים מעידין הוא לא מהימן אחריני מהימני

What difficulty [is this]? [It is] possible [that the Palestine message refers to] a case where his<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The robber's. ');">²⁸</span> handwriting was endorsed at a court of law!<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Before he embarked on his lawless career. At that time his word could be relied upon; and the deed is, therefore, valid if the witnesses now testify that they signed the endorsement when he was still an upright man. ');">²⁹</span> If, however, [a message was sent to which] objection [is to be raised, it might be] the following.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' V. supra, p. 692, n. 10. ');">³⁰</span> 'If a person was in a position to tender<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lit., 'knew'. ');">³¹</span>

וכי תימא הכא נמי כגון שהוחזק כתב ידו בב"ד והא אמר רב יוסף בר מניומי אמר רב נחמן אף על פי שלא הוחזק כתב ידו בבית דין

evidence for one<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lit., 'him'. ');">³²</span> [in respect of a transaction that was recorded] in a deed,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' E.g., a loan for which a bond of indebtedness has been given. ');">³³</span> before it<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The bond, i.e., the debt. ');">³⁴</span> had fallen as an inheritance to him, he is not eligible to identify his handwriting<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' He is now an interested party and is, consequently. disqualified from acting as witness. ');">³⁵</span>

ומאי קושיא דלמא גזירת מלך היא דאיהו לא מהימן ואחריני מהימני ולאו משום דמשקר דאי לא תימא הכי משה ואהרן לחותנם משום דלא מהימני הוא אלא גזירת מלך הוא שלא יעידו להם ה"נ גזירת מלך הוא שלא יעיד על כתב ידו לחותנו

but others may identify his handwriting.'<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Since it has been said that he himself is not trusted, it is apparently assumed that he might have forged the document, why then should it be valid if others confirm his handwriting? Could not that very handwriting represent a record of an imaginary transaction? This then may have been the message sent from Palestine which presents a difficulty in civil law. ');">³⁶</span> What difficulty, however, [is this]? [Is it not] possible [that] here also [the reference is to] a case where his handwriting was endorsed at a court of law?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' CF. mutatis mutandis, supra, n. 13. ');">³⁷</span> If, however [a message was sent to which] objection [is to be raised, it might be] the following.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' V. supra p. 692, n. 10. ');">³⁸</span> 'If a person was in a position to tender evidence for one, before he became his son-in-law and he [subsequently] became his son-inlaw, he is not [permitted] to attest his handwriting,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., his signature on any document in favour of his father-in-law. ');">³⁹</span>

אלא לעולם כדאמרינן מעיקרא ודקא קשיא לך תחת אבותיך יהיו בניך ההוא בברכה כתיב

but others may attest it. [Now. if] he is not trusted [shall] others be trusted!<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' CF. supra p. 693, n. 20. ');">⁴⁰</span> And if it be suggested [that] here also [the reference is to] a case where his handwriting was endorsed at a court of law, surely, [it may be retorted], R. Joseph b. Manyumi said in the name of R. Nahman, 'Even though his handwriting was not endorsed at a court of law'!<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' This, then, may have been the Palestine message and the difficulty in civil law that it presented. ');">⁴¹</span> What difficulty, however, [is this]? [It is] possible [that] it is a decree of the king<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' A divine precept, a statute without a reason. ');">⁴²</span> that he<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' A relative such as a son-in-law. ');">⁴³</span>

ומי מצית אמרת בברכה כתיב

shall not be trusted [as a witness] while others<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Strangers, attesting his signature. ');">⁴⁴</span> shall be trusted; and [the reason is] not because he might lie!<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Hence, the correctness of the statements in the deed never having been doubted, the deed is valid if strangers attest the signature. ');">⁴⁵</span> for should not [this explanation] be accepted,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lit., 'for if you will not say so'. ');">⁴⁶</span> [could it be imagined that] Moses and Aaron [are not permitted to act as witnesses] for their fathers-in-law because they are untrustworthy! [The] only [possible explanation] then [is that] it is a decree of the king that they<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Moses and Aaron as any other relatives. ');">⁴⁷</span> shall not act as witnesses for them,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Their fathers-in-law (or other relatives). ');">⁴⁸</span> [so] here also [the explanation may be that] it is the decree of the king that he<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' A son-in-law. ');">⁴⁹</span> shall not attest his handwriting in favour of his father-in-law.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' What, then, could have been meant by the 'difficulty' mentioned? ');">⁵⁰</span> Hence [the message sent from Palestine was in fact just the one that was mentioned at first;<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The case of a son who sold his share in his father's estate during the latter's lifetime (supra). ');">⁵¹</span> and as to your objection [from the verse]. Instead of thy fathers shall be thy sons,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' V. supra. ');">⁵²</span> [it may be pointed out that] this was written in [connection with] a blessing.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' From an expression used in reference to a blessing no law may be derived. ');">⁵³</span> But can it be said [that this verse] was written [only] in [connection with] a blessing