Chullin 145

כחתוך דמי כמאן כרבי מאיר

is already accounted as cut up.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' So that the contact between the limb and the foetus in our Mishnah cannot be said to be covert.');">¹</span>

דתנן

According to whom is this teaching?

כל ידות הכלים שהן ארוכות ועתיד לקצצן מטביל עד מקום מדה (דברי ר"מ וחכמים אומרים)

[Is it only] according to R'Meir?

עד שיטביל את כולו

For we have learnt: vessels that have very long handles which are to be cut down need be immersed only as far as the measure<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' But that part of the handle which is to be cut away need not be immersed, for it is regarded as already cut away.');">²</span>

אפילו תימא רבנן חבורי אוכלין כמאן דמפרתי דמי ונגיעי בהדדי

[that has been determined].

בשלמא לעולא היינו דקתני

R'Judah<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The reading in the text, 'So R. Meir; but the Sages say' has been corrected so as to correspond with the text in Mikv. X, 5 from where the Mishnah is quoted. It is true, however, that the first opinion, although reported anonymously, is that of R. Meir.');">³</span>

חתכה אלא לרבינא מאי חתכה

says: The whole of it must be immersed! - You can even say that [the teaching of our Mishnah] is in accordance with the view of the Sages, for a mass of foodstuffs is always to be regarded as separated into parts and [the parts] as touching each other.

איידי דתנא רישא חתכה תנא נמי סיפא חתכה:

Now according to Ulla it is well that [the Mishnah] states: AND THEN CUT IT OFF,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' For then only, i.e., at the moment that the limb is being severed from the foetus, does the foetus contract uncleanness by virtue of contact with the unclean limb.');">⁴</span>

וחכמים אומרים

but according to Rabina why does it state, AND THEN CUT IT OFF?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Even though it had not been cut off it is, according to Rabina, considered as already severed and the foetus would be rendered unclean by its contact.');">⁵</span>

מגע טרפה שחוטה:

- Since it states, in the first clause, AND CUT IT OFF, it states in the second clause too, AND THEN CUT IT OFF.

טרפה שחוטה מי מטמיא

BUT THE SAGES SAY, IT IS UNCLEAN LIKE THAT WHICH HAD TOUCHED A SLAUGHTERED TREFAH ANIMAL.

אין כדאבוה דשמואל דאמר אבוה דשמואל

But does a slaughtered trefah animal render anything unclean?

טרפה ששחטה מטמאה במוקדשין:

It does indeed, as stated by Samuel's father.

מה מצינו בטרפה ששחיטתה מטהרתה אף שחיטת בהמה תטהר את העובר:

For Samuel's father stated: A trefah animal that was slaughtered renders holy things unclean.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' So according to Maim. Yad, Aboth Hatumah, II, 8. According to Rashi (infra 123b) a trefah consecrated animal that was slaughtered still renders unclean.');">⁶</span>

תניא אמר להן רבי מאיר

FOR JUST AS WE FIND THAT THE SLAUGHTERING OF A TREFAH [ANIMAL] RENDERS IT CLEAN, SO THE SLAUGHTERING OF THE ANIMAL SHOULD RENDER THE [PROTRUDING] LIMB CLEAN.

וכי מי טיהרו לאבר זה מידי נבלה שחיטת אמו

It was taught: R'Meir said to them, But what was it that rendered this limb clean, so that it be not nebelah?

א"כ תתירנו באכילה

Was it not the slaughtering of its dam?

אמרו לו

Then it should also render it permitted to be eaten! They replied: It is often the case that an act has a greater effect upon that which is not part of itself than upon that which is pa of itself; for we have learnt: 'Whatsoever is cut off from the foetus within the womb [and left inside] may be eaten, but whatsoever is cut off from the spleen or the kidneys [of the animal and left inside] may not be eaten.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Supra 68a.');">⁷</span>

הרבה מצלת על שאינו גופה יותר מגופה שהרי שנינו

What does this mean? - Raba, others say Kadi,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Aliter: 'as the case may be', i.e., some introduce other persons.');">⁸</span>

חותך מן העובר שבמעיה מותר באכילה מן הטחול ומן הכליות אסור באכילה

replied: There is an omission here, and this is the real teaching.

מאי קאמר

R'Meir said to them, But what was it that rendered this limb clean so that it be not nebelah?

אמר רבא ואמרי לה כדי

Was it not the slaughtering of its dam?

חסורי מחסרא והכי קתני אמר להן ר' מאיר

Then it should also render it permitted to be eaten! They replied: The case of a trefah [animal] proves otherwise, for the slaughtering renders it clean, so that it be not nebelah, an yet does not render it permitted to be eaten.

וכי מי טהרו לאבר זה מידי נבלה שחיטת אמו

He retorted: It is not so.

אם כן תתירנו באכילה

For when you say that the slaughtering of a trefah [animal] renders it clean, you are concerned with [the animal] itself; but can it render clean the limb which is not part of [the animal] itself?

אמרו לו

They replied: It is often the case that an act has a greater effe upon that which is not part of itself than upon that which is part of itself; for we have learnt: Whatsoever is cut off from the foetus within the womb [and left inside] may be eaten, but whatsoever is cut off from the spleen or the kidneys [of the animal and left inside] may not be eaten.

טרפה תוכיח ששחיטתה מטהרתה מידי נבלה ואינה מתירתה באכילה

There is [also a Baraitha] taught which expressly states it so.

אמר להן

R'Meir said to them, But what was it that rendered this limb clean so that it be not nebelah?

לא אם טיהרה שחיטת טרפה אותה דבר שהיא גופה תטהר את האבר דבר שאינו גופה

They replied: The slaughtering.

אמרו לו

Then, said he, it should also render it permitted to be eaten.

הרבה מצלת על שאינו גופה יותר מגופה שהרי שנינו

They replied: The case of a trefah [animal] proves otherwise, for the slaughtering renders it clean, so that it be not nebelah, and yet does not render it permitted to be eaten.

חותך מן העובר שבמעיה מותר באכילה מן הטחול ומן הכליות אסור באכילה

He retorted: When you say that the slaughtering of a trefah [animal] renders it clean or [that the slaughtering of an animal renders clean] the limb that hangs loose,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' V. infra ');">⁹</span>

תניא נמי הכי אמר להן רבי מאיר

you are concerned with [the animal] itself; but can it render clean the [limb of the] foetus which is not part of [the animal] itself?

וכי מי טיהרו לאבר זה מידי נבלה

They replied: It is often the ca that an act' has a greater effect upon that which is not part of itself than upon that which is part of itself; we have learnt: Whatsoever is cut off from the foetus within the womb [and left inside] may be eaten, but whatsoever is cut off from the spleen or the kidneys [of the animal and left inside] may not be eaten.

אמרו לו

R'Simeon B'Lakish said: Just as they<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Sc. R. Meir and the Sages in our MISHNAH:');">¹⁰</span>

שחיטת אמו

differ with regard to the [limb of the] foetus so they differ with regard to loose limbs.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' According to R. Meir the slaughtering of the animal will not render the hanging limb clean, but according to the Sages it will.');">¹¹</span>

א"כ תתירנו באכילה

R'Johanan said: They differ only with regard to the limb of the foetus, but with regard to a loose limb of the animal all agree that at the slaughtering it is accounted as detached.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lit., 'the slaughtering brings about the falling off'. The slaughtering has no effect upon it, for the limb is regarded as having already become detached or having already fallen away from the animal prior to the slaughtering, and is therefore unclean like nebelah.');">¹²</span>

אמרו לו

R'Jose B'Hanina said: What reason does R'Johanan suggest for the view of the Rabbis?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., the Sages in the MISHNAH:');">¹³</span>

טרפה תוכיח ששחיטתה מטהרתה מידי נבלה ואינה מתירתה באכילה

- In this case [of the foetus] there is a remedy for it by withdrawal [into the womb],<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' V. supra ');">¹⁴</span>

אמר להן

but in that case [of the loose limb] there is no remedy for it by withdrawal.

אם טיהרה שחיטת טרפה אותה ואת האבר המדולדל בה דבר שגופה תטהר את העובר שאינו גופה

An objection was raised.

אמרו לו

R'Meir said to them: It is not so.

הרבה מצלת על שאינו גופה יותר מגופה שהרי שנינו

When you say that the slaughtering of a trefah [animal] renders it clean, or [that the slaughtering of an animal renders clean] the loose limb, you are concerned with [the animal] itself, but can it render clean the [limb of the] foetus which is not part of the animal itself?

חותך מן העובר שבמעיה מותר באכילה מן הטחול ומן הכליות אסור באכילה

אמר רשב"ל

כמחלוקת בעוברין כך מחלוקת באיברין

ורבי יוחנן אמר

מחלוקת באבר דעובר אבל באבר דבהמה דברי הכל שחיטה עושה ניפול

א"ר יוסי בר' חנינא

מ"ט דר' יוחנן אליבא דרבנן

האי אית ליה תקנתא בחזרה והא לית ליה תקנתא בחזרה

מיתיבי אמר להם ר' מאיר

לא אם טיהרה שחיטת טרפה אותה ואת האבר המדולדל בה דבר שגופה תטהר את העובר דבר שאינו גופה