Chullin 152

Chapter 152

א מר בר רב אשי אמר
1 Mar son of R'Ashi said: Where they are transparent though not white [it is part of the juncture of the tendons].
ב כיון דזיגי אע"ג דלא חוורי
2 Amemar said in the name of R'Zebid: It consists of three tendons, one thick and two thin.
ג אמר אמימר משמיה דרב זביד
3 If the thick one was severed [it is trefah, for] the greater part of its structure has gone; and if the thin ones were severed [i trefah, for] the greater number [of tendons] has gone.
ד תלתא חוטי הוו חד אלימא ותרי קטיני
4 Mar son of R'Ashi reports the above in favour of leniency thus: If the thick one was severed [it is permitted, for] there remains the greater number of tendons, and if the thin ones were severed [it is permitted, for] there remains the greater part of its structure.
ה איפסיק אלימא אזדא רוב בנין איפסיק קטיני אזדא רוב מנין
5 In birds the juncture consists of sixteen tendons; if one was severed, it is trefah.
ו מר בר רב אשי מתני לקולא
6 Mar son of R'Ashi said was once standing before my father when there was brought to him a bird which he examined and found therein only fifteen tendons.
ז איפסיק אלימא האיכא רוב מנין איפסיק קטיני האיכא רוב בנין
7 One, however, appeared different from the others, so he split it and found that it was composed of two tendons; [he therefore declared it to be permitted.]
ח בעופות שיתסר חוטי הוו אי פסיק חד מינייהו טרפה
8 Rab Judah said in the name of Rab: With regard to the juncture of the tendons, if the greater part [was severed, it is trefah].
ט אמר מר בר רב אשי
9 What is meant by 'the greater part'?
י הוה קאימנא קמיה דאבא ואייתו לקמיה עופא ובדק ואשכח ביה חמיסר הוה חד דהוה שני מחבריה נפציה ואשכח תרי
10 The greater part of any one of them.
יא אמר רב יהודה אמר רב
11 When I stated this in the presence of Samuel he said to me, 'Consider, there are three [tendons], are there not?
יב צומת הגידין שאמרו ברובו
12 Even if one was entirely severed there still remain two'! Now the reason is because there still remain two; but if there did not remain two it would not [be permitted].
יג מאי רובו
13 This clearly is in conflict with the view of Rabbanai.
יד רוב אחד מהן
14 For Rabbanai stated in the name of Samuel: If of the juncture of the tendons there only remained as much as the thread of a woolen cloak, it is permitted.
טו כי אמריתה קמיה דשמואל אמר לי
15 Others say: By 'the greater part' is meant the greater part of each.
טז מכדי תלתא הוו כי מיפסיק חד מינייהו לגמרי הא איכא תרי
16 [tendon].<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' And then only is it trefah.');"><sup>1</sup></span>
יז טעמא דאיכא תרי הא ליכא תרי לא
17 When I stated this in the presence of Samuel he said to me, 'Consider, there are three [tendons], are there not?
יח ופליגא דרבנאי דאמר רבנאי אמר שמואל
18 [Even if the greater part of each was cut] there still remains one third of each one'.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Which together make up one whole tendon; and so should be permitted.');"><sup>2</sup></span>
יט צומת הגידים אפי' לא נשתייר בה אלא כחוט הסרבל כשרה
19 This accordingly supports the view of Rabbanai.
כ ואיכא דאמרי
20 For Rabbanai stated in the name of Samuel: If of the juncture of the tendons there only remained as much as the thread of a woolen cloak, it is permitted.
כא מאי רובו רוב כל אחד ואחד
21 IF THE BONE WAS BROKEN etc. Rab said, [Where the fracture was] above the joint,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The joint spoken of in our MISHNAH:');"><sup>3</sup></span>
כב כי אמריתה קמיה דשמואל אמר לי
22 if the greater part o the flesh remained,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Covering the fracture.');"><sup>4</sup></span>
כג מכדי תלתא הוו האיכא תלתא דכל חד וחד
23 both<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., the animal as well as the limb.');"><sup>5</sup></span>
כד מסייע ליה לרבנאי דאמר רבנאי אמר שמואל
24 are permitted, and if not both are forbidden.
כה צומת הגידין שאמרו אפי' לא נשתייר בה אלא כחוט הסרבל כשרה:
25 [Where the fracture was] below the joint, if the greater part of the flesh remained, both are permitted, and if not the limb is forbidden<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Since it hangs loose from the animal it is not rendered permitted by the slaughtering of the animal.');"><sup>6</sup></span>
כו נשבר העצם כו':
26 but the animal is permitted.
כז אמר רב
27 Samuel said: Whether the fracture was above or below the joint, if the greater part of the flesh remained, both are permitted, and if not the limb is forbidden but the animal is permitted.
כח למעלה מן הארכובה אם רוב הבשר קיים זה וזה מותר ואם לאו זה וזה אסור
28 R'Nahman demurred saying: According to Samuel's view people will remark, 'A limb thereof is thrown on to the dung-heap and yet the animal is permitted'!<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' This surely cannot be right.');"><sup>7</sup></span>
כט למטה מן הארכובה אם רוב הבשר קיים זה וזה מותר אם לאו אבר אסור ובהמה מותרת
29 Whereupon R'Aba son of R'Huna said to R'Nahman: Even according to Rab's view<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' In the case where the fracture occurred below the joint and the greater part of the surrounding flesh was gone.');"><sup>8</sup></span>
ל ושמואל אמר
30 people will remark, 'A limb thereof is thrown on to the dung-heap and yet the animal is permitted!' - He replied.
לא בין למעלה בין למטה אם רוב הבשר קיים זה וזה מותר אם לאו אבר אסור ובהמה מותרת
31 I mean this, people will remark, 'A vital<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' That is, where the fracture was above the joint.');"><sup>9</sup></span>
לב מתקיף לה רב נחמן לשמואל
32 limb of the animal is thrown on to the dung-heap and yet the animal is permitted'!
לג יאמרו אבר ממנה מוטל באשפה ומותרת
33 They sent word from there [Palestine]: The law agrees with Rab's view.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' It will be seen that the only point of difference between Rab and Samuel is in the case where the fracture was above the joint and the greater part of the flesh around the fracture was gone. According to Rab both the limb and the animal are forbidden, whilst according to Samuel the animal is permitted even though the limb is forbidden.');"><sup>10</sup></span>
לד א"ל רב אחא בר רב הונא לרב נחמן
34 They later sent word: The law agrees with Samuel's view.
לה לרב נמי יאמרו
35 And yet another time they sent word: The law agrees with Rab's view; moreover, the limb conveys uncleanness by carrying.
לו אבר ממנה מוטל באשפה ומותרת
36 R'Hisda raised this objection.
לז א"ל הכי קאמינא
37 It was taught: It is not so.
לח אבר שחיה ממנה מוטל באשפה ומותרת שלחו מתם
38 When you say that the slaughtering of a trefah animal renders it clean, or [that the slaughtering of an animal] renders the limb that hangs loose clean, you are concerned with [the animal] itself; but can it render clean the [limb of the] foetus which is not part of [the animal] itself?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' In this Baraitha it is admitted by all that a limb that hangs loose from the animal is rendered clean by the slaughtering of the animal. How then can it be said that it conveys uncleanness by 'carrying'?');"><sup>11</sup></span>
לט הלכתא כוותיה דרב הדור שלחו
39 Thereupon Rabbah said to him: Why go searching for objections?
מ כוותיה דשמואל הדור שלחו
40 You could raise an objection from a Mishnah which we have learnt: If the animal was slaughtered they<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., the loose limb and the pieces of flesh that hang loose from the animal.');"><sup>12</sup></span>
מא כוותיה דרב ואבר עצמו מטמא במשא
41 are rendered susceptible [to contract uncleanness] by the blood [of the slaughtering]: so R'Meir.
מב מתיב רב חסדא
42 R'Simeon says: They are not rendered susceptible to uncleanness!<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The dispute is only with regard to their being rendered susceptible to contract uncleanness in the future, but both agree that the limb itself does not convey uncleanness. V. infra 127b; supra 73b.');"><sup>13</sup></span>
מג לא אם טיהרה שחיטת טרפה אותה ואת האבר המדולדל בה דבר שגופה תטהר את העובר דבר שאינו גופה
43 - He replied, [The objection from] that Mishnah can be rejected as indeed we rejected it above.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' V. supra 73b. It was there suggested that that Mishnah does not deal with a loose limb at all but only with pieces of flesh that hang loose from the limb or from the animal itself.');"><sup>14</sup></span>
מד א"ל רבה
44 When R'Zera went up [to Palestine] he found R'Jeremiah [b.
מה הדורי אפירכי למה לך
45 Abba] sitting and reciting the above statement [of Rab].
מו אותיב ממתני'
46 R'Zera thereupon remarked: 'Well spoken! So, too, did Arioch<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' A title of dignity applied to Samuel, the contemporary of Rab. It is probably a Persian adaptation of 'judge' (Jastrow) . V. Kid., Sonc. ed., p. 189, n. 11. V. also Rashi here, and in Men. 38b.');"><sup>15</sup></span>
מז נשחטה בהמה הוכשרו בדמיה דברי ר"מ
47 teach it in Babylon'! But who is Arioch?
מח ר"ש אומר
48 It is Samuel, is it not?
מט לא הוכשרו
49 But does he not disagree [with Rab]? - Samuel retracted his opinion in favour of Rab's.
נ א"ל
50 Our Rabbis taught: Where the bone was broken and it protruded outside, if the skin and flesh cover the greater part of it, it is permitted; otherwise it is forbidden.
נא מתני' איכא לדחויי כדדחינן
51 What is meant by 'the greater part of it'? - Whe R'Dimi came [from Palestine] he reported in the name of R'Johanan that it means, the greater part of its thickness.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Sc. of the bone; i.e., only a small part of the surface of the fracture was exposed whereas the greater part was covered by the flesh and skin.');"><sup>16</sup></span>
נב כי סליק ר' זירא אשכחיה לרב ירמיה דיתיב וקאמר לה להא שמעתא
52 Others say: It means, the greater part [of the flesh] that surrounds it.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., the greater part of the flesh around the fracture was whole and not lacerated. Even though the entire surface of the fracture had projected and was exposed, it would be permitted.');"><sup>17</sup></span>
נג א"ל
53 R'Papa said: We therefore require the greater part of its thickness [to be covered by flesh], as well as the greater part [of th flesh] that surrounds it [to be intact].
נד יישר וכן תרגמה אריוך בבבל
54 Ulla said in the name of R'Johanan: The skin is like the flesh.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The skin is considered an adequate covering over the fracture even though all the flesh underneath the skin was gone.');"><sup>18</sup></span>
נה אריוך מנו שמואל והא מיפלג פליג
55 R'Nahman said to Ulla: Why does not the Master rather say that the skin is to be reckoned with the flesh [to make up the required amount]?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., that the covering over the fracture shall consist half of skin and half of flesh, but not as was suggested entirely of skin.');"><sup>19</sup></span>
נו הדר ביה שמואל לגביה דרב
56 Does not [the above Baraitha] state 'skin and flesh'? - He replied: We interpret [that Baraitha] to mean, either skin or flesh.
נז ת"ר
57 Others report this as follows: Ulla said in the name of R'Johanan: The skin is to be reckoned together with the flesh [to make up the required amount].
נח נשבר העצם ויצא לחוץ אם עור ובשר חופין את רובו מותר אם לאו אסור
58 R'Nahman said to Ulla: Why does not the Master rather say that the skin merely completes the [required amount of] flesh, adopting the stricter interpretation?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., if the greater portion which surrounds the fracture consists for the most part of flesh but there is a little skin which completes the required amount, only then would it be permitted, but not where it consisted half of flesh and half of skin.');"><sup>20</sup></span>
נט וכמה רובו
59 - He replied: I only know of the following incident.
ס כי אתא רב דימי אמר ר' יוחנן
60 At the house of R'Isaac there was a young pigeon [whose leg was broken], and the skin, if reckoned together with the flesh, [covered up the greater part of the fracture].
סא רוב עוביו ואמרי לה
61 The case was brought before R'Johanan and he declared it to be permitted.
סב רוב הקיפו
62 Thereupon R'Nahman retorted: You are speaking of a young pigeon! but the case of a young pigeon is quite different, because its skin is tender.
סג אמר רב פפא
63 [The case of a fracture which was covered for the most part with flesh and] tender sinews came before Raba.
סד הלכך בעינן רוב עוביו ובעינן רוב הקיפו
64 Said Raba: What have we to fear?
סה אמר עולא אמר רבי יוחנן
65 In the first place, R'Johanan has declared that in respect of the sinews which later will become hard
סו עור הרי הוא כבשר
66 
סז א"ל רב נחמן לעולא ולימא מר
67 
סח עור מצטרף לבשר דהא עור ובשר קתני
68 
סט א"ל
69 
ע אנן עור או בשר תנינן
70 
עא איכא דאמרי [אמר עולא] א"ר יוחנן
71 
עב עור מצטרף לבשר
72 
עג א"ל רב נחמן לעולא ולימא מר
73 
עד עור משלים לבשר לחומרא
74 
עה א"ל
75 
עו אנא עובדא ידענא דההוא בר גוזלא דהוה בי רבי יצחק דעור מצטרף לבשר הוה ואתא לקמיה דר' יוחנן ואכשריה
76 
עז א"ל
77 
עח בר גוזלא קאמרת
78 
עט בר גוזלא דרכיך שאני
79 
פ הנהו גידין רכין דאתו לקמיה דרבה אמר רבה
80 
פא למאי ליחוש להו
81 
פב חדא דאמר ר' יוחנן
82 
פג גידין שסופן להקשות
83 
Previous ChapterNext Chapter