Chullin 179

אלמא

Hence [it is possible for] the prohibition of consecrated things to come into force first!<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' For as soon as the embryo is formed it is consecrated by reason of the consecration of its dam whereas the prohibition of the sciatic nerve only comes into force later when the network of nerves is firmly knit together.');">¹</span>

איסור מוקדשין קדים

- Notwithstanding that the prohibition of consecrated things comes into force first, the prohibition of the nerve can be superimposed upon it, for its prohibition is binding even upon the sons of Noah.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Where the later prohibition is comprehensive in that it is binding upon a large class of people it can be superimposed upon an existing prohibition which is less comprehensive in its application.');">²</span>

אע"ג דאיסור מוקדשין קדים אתי איסור גיד חייל עלייהו שכן איסורו נוהג בבני נח

Whom did you hear maintain this view?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' That the prohibition against eating the sciatic nerve is binding upon the sons of Noah. (V. infra 100b) .');">³</span>

מאן שמעת ליה האי סברא ר' יהודה והא מתניתין דלא כרבי יהודה דקתני

R'Judah, is it not?

נוהג בבהמה ובחיה בירך של ימין ובירך של שמאל

But our Mishnah cannot be in agreement with R'Judah, for it reads IT APPLIES TO CATTLE AND TO WILD ANIMALS, TO THE RIGHT AND LEFT HIP!<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Whereas R. Judah holds that only the nerve of one thigh (the right) is prohibited.');">⁴</span>

האי תנא סבר לה כוותיה בחדא

- This Tanna [of our Mishnah] agrees with him [R'Judah] on one point<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' That the prohibition against eating the sciatic nerve is binding upon the sons of Noah. (V. infra 100b) .');">³</span>

ופליג עליה בחדא אימר דשמעת ליה לרבי יהודה בטמאה דאיסור לאו קדשים דאיסור כרת מי שמעת ליה

and disagrees on the other point.

אלא הכא במבכרת עסקינן דברחם קדוש

But perhaps you heard R'Judah apply this argument only to the case of an unclean animal since it is forbidden by a prohibition only;<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' V. n. 5. Inasmuch as the existing prohibition (sc. that of an unclean animal) is only punishable by stripes a further prohibition (sc. that of the sciatic nerve) can be superimposed.');">⁵</span>

ואי בעית אימא

but have you heard him apply it also to consecrated things for which there is a penalty of Kareth?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' In certain circumstances e.g. if consecrated meat is eaten in a state of uncleanness. The penalty therefore being so severe, no further prohibitions can be superimposed.');">⁶</span>

ולדות קדשים בהווייתן הן קדושים

- Rather it must be that we are dealing with the case of a firstling which is consecrated only [when it comes forth out of] the womb.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The prohibition of the sciatic nerve applies only to a firstling since this prohibition and the prohibition of consecrated things attach simultaneously, but it does not apply to other consecrated animals for they are consecrated even while a foetus in the womb, so that the prohibition of the sciatic nerve cannot be superimposed later.');">⁷</span>

אמר רבי חייא בר יוסף

Alternatively, you may say that the young of consecrated animals are themselves consecrated only when they come into being.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., as soon as they are born, and not as was assumed previously in the embryonic state. The prohibition of the sciatic nerve, however, came into force earlier when it was a foetus in the womb.');">⁸</span>

לא שנו אלא קדשים הנאכלין אבל קדשים שאינן נאכלין אין איסור גיד נוהג בהן

R'Hiyya B'Joseph said: They taught this only concerning consecrated animals that may be eaten,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' E.g., peace-offerings, and sin-offerings.');">⁹</span>

ורבי יוחנן אמר

but with regard to consecrated animals that are not eaten<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., burnt-offerings.');">¹⁰</span>

אחד קדשים הנאכלין ואחד קדשים שאין נאכלין איסור גיד נוהג בהן

the prohibition of the nerve does not apply.

אמר רב פפא

But R'Johanan said: The prohibition of the nerve applies both to consecrated animals that may be eaten and to those that are not eaten.

ולא פליגי כאן להלקותו כאן להעלותו איכא דאמרי אמר רב פפא

Said R'Papa: There is really no dispute between them, for the one refers to the question of stripes<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' R. Johanan meant that the prohibition applies in that he who eats it incurs stripes.');">¹¹</span>

ולא פליגי כאן לחלצו וכאן להעלותו

whereas the other refers to the question of offering it.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' R. Hiyya b. Joseph meant that the prohibition does not apply and it may be offered up upon the altar. R. Gershom interprets just the reverse: R. Hiyya b. Joseph teaches that he that eats it does not suffer stripes, and R. Johanan teaches that it may not be offered upon the altar.');">¹²</span>

רב נחמן בר יצחק אמר

Others report R'Papa's statement thus: There is really no dispute between them, for the one refers to the removal thereof<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' According to R. Hiyya b. Joseph the prohibition does not apply, that is, it need not be removed from the thigh before offering up the animal upon the altar.');">¹³</span>

להעלותו פליגי דתניא

whereas the other refers to the offering up of it.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' According to R. Johanan the prohibition applies, i.e., if the nerve was extracted it may not be offered separately upon the altar.');">¹⁴</span>

(ויקרא א, ט) והקטיר הכהן את הכל המזבחה לרבות העצמות והגידין והקרנים והטלפים יכול אפילו פרשו

R'Nahman B'Isaac said: They disagree about offering it up.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Even together with the thigh. According to R. Hiyya b. Joseph this may be done, and according to R. Johanan it may not. In many MS.S. the reading in the text is: 'They disagree about the removal of it'; i.e., according to R. Hiyya b. Joseph it need not be removed, according to R. Johanan it must. It seems that before Rashi both texts were in the GEMARA: V. D.S. a.l.');">¹⁵</span>

ת"ל

For it was taught: And the Priest shall burn the whole upon the altar,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lev. I, 9.');">¹⁶</span>

(דברים יב, כז) ועשית עולותיך הבשר והדם אי בשר ודם יכול יחלוץ גידים ועצמות ויעלה בשר לגבי מזבח

this includes bones, nerves, horns and hoofs.

ת"ל

I might think that [it is so] even if they were severed,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., even if the nerves and bones were cut away from the flesh they must be offered separately upon the altar.');">¹⁷</span>

(ויקרא א, ט) והקטיר הכהן את הכל המזבחה הא כיצד

the text therefore states: And thou shalt offer thy burnt-offerings, the flesh and the blood.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Deut. XII, 27. The flesh and blood only shall be offered up but not nerves and bones.');">¹⁸</span>

מחוברין יעלו פרשו אפילו בראשו של מזבח ירדו

But since it is written 'the flesh and the blood', I might think that one must first cut away the nerves and bones and then offer the flesh upon the altar, it is therefore written: 'And the priest shall burn the whole upon the altar'.

ומאן תנא דשמעת ליה דאמר פרשו ירדו

How [are these verses to be reconciled]?

רבי היא דתניא

If they<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Sc. the nerves and bones.');">¹⁹</span>

והקטיר הכהן את הכל לרבות העצמות והגידים והקרנים והטלפים ואפילו פרשו והא מה אני מקיים ועשית עולותיך הבשר והדם בפוקעין הא כיצד

are still attached [to the limb], they may be offered up; if they are severed, even if they are already the top of the altar, they must come down.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' They may not be offered separately, and if offered up they must be taken down from the altar.');">²⁰</span>

עיכולי בשר אתה מחזיר ואי אתה מחזיר עיכולי גידים ועצמות

Now which Tanna have you heard say that if they were severed [and offered up] they must come down?

רבי אומר

It is Rabbi.

כתוב אחד אומר והקטיר הכהן את הכל ריבה וכתוב אחד אומר ועשית עולותיך הבשר והדם מיעט

For it has been taught: 'And the priest shall burn the whole', this includes bones, nerves, horns and hoofs, even if they are severed.

הא כיצד

And how do I explain the verse: 'And thou shalt offer thy burnt-offerings, the flesh and the blood'?

מחוברין יעלו פרשו אפילו בראשו של מזבח ירדו

With reference to those portions which have jumped off [the altar]; thus, only half-burnt flesh you may replace [if it had jumped off the altar], but you may not replace half-burnt nerves and bones.

ורבנן מחוברין לא איצטריך קרא לרבויי מידי דהוה אראשה של עולה כי איצטריך קרא לפרשו

Rabbi says: One verse reads: 'And the priest shall burn the whole', which includes [everything], whilst another verse reads: 'And thou shalt offer thy burnt-offerings, the flesh and the blood', which excludes [everything else].

ורבי מחוברין דהיתירא

How [are the verses to be reconciled]? Thus if they<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Sc. the nerves and bones.');">¹⁹</span> are still attached [to the limb], they may be offered up; if they are severed, even if they are on the top of the altar, they must come down. And the Rabbis? - They maintain that when they are still attached [to the limb] no verse is necessary to include them, for they are on the same footing as the head of a burnt-offering;<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The head of a burnt-offering had to be offered up whole upon the altar although it contains many bones; likewise every complete limb may be offered although it contains bones and nerves.');">²¹</span> consequently the verse is only necessary to include them when severed. And Rabbi? - [He says,] as regards the permitted parts which are still attached [to the limb, I admit that]