Chullin 238

שני שומרין מהו שיצטרפו

Can two protections be reckoned together<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' With the foodstuff within so as to make up the egg's bulk in order to contract and convey uncleanness.');">¹</span>

היכי דמי אילימא בזה על גב זה ומי איכא שומר על גב שומר

or not?

והתנן רבי יהודה אומר

But what is the actual case?

שלש קליפות בבצל פנימית בין שלמה בין קדורה מצטרפת

If you say that one is over th other, but can it be said that a protection over a protection [has the law of a protection]?

אמצעית שלמה מצטרפת קדורה אין מצטרפת

Behold we have learnt: R'Judah says: An onion has three skins: the innermost skin, whether it is entire or has holes in it, is reckoned together [with the edible part]; the middle skin, if it is entire, is reckoned together, but if it has holes in it, it is not reckoned together; the outermost skin in either case is clean!<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' V. 'Uk. II, 4. The innermost skin is regarded as part of the onion for it is edible, the middle is a protection and therefore can serve as such only when entire, the outermost as a protection over a protection which can in no circumstances be reckoned together with the foodstuff. rnua');">²</span>

חיצונה בין כך ובין כך טהורה

- R'Oshaia really raised this question: What is the law if the protection of a foodstuff was divided?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., a foodstuff that had a protection over it was divided into two. V. however, Tosaf. s.v. .');">³</span>

רב אושעיא שומר אוכל שחלקו קמיבעיא ליה

Since this [half of the protection does not protect the other [half of the foodstuff] and the other [half of the protection] does not protect this [half of the foodstuff] they cannot be reckoned together, or, it may be, since each [half of the protection] protects its own [half of the foodstuff] they can be reckoned together?

כיון דהאי לא מגין אהאי והאי לא מגין אהאי לא מצטרפת

Come and hear: R'Eleazar B''Azariah declares that of the bean clean but that of [other] pulse unclean, since one is pleased with it when handling them!<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' V. supra p. 660, n. 3. Since, therefore, in the case of other pulse, such as peas, several pods can be reckoned together with the peas within them to make up the quantity of an egg's bulk; it is evident that two protections can be reckoned together.');">⁴</span>

או דלמא כיון דהאי מגין אדידיה והאי מגין אדידיה מצטרפין

- R'Aha the son of Raba answered: It refers to the stalk which is considered as a handle.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The one stalk serves as a handle to many pods.');">⁵</span>

תא שמע

And what is meant by 'when handling them'? - It means, when moving them about.

רבי אלעזר בן עזריה מטהר בשל פול ומטמא בשל קטנית מפני שרוצה במשמישן

Come and hear from the following teaching of a Tanna of the school of R'Ishmael: It is written: 'Upon any sowing seed which is to be sown',<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lev. XI, 37.');">⁶</span>

אמר רב אחא בריה דרבא

that is to say, in the manner in which men take out the seeds for sowing; wheat in its husk, barley in its husk, lentils in their husks!<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Since several grains with their husks can be reckoned together to make up the quantity of an egg's bulk, it is evident that protections can be reckoned together; likewise, where a foodstuff was divided into two together with the protection upon it, the parts can be reckoned together.');">⁷</span>

בקולחא ומשום יד ומאי במשמישן בתשמישן

- As R'Aha the son of Raba had suggested [above] that it referred to the stalk which is considered a handle, so here it refers to the stem [of the ear of wheat] which is considered a protection.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The grains in the ear of corn spring from the rachis or stem in row upon row on all sides of it; moreover the ear of corn (in barley and certain species of wheat) is covered by an awn or beard. The suggestion seems to be here that the rachis and the awn together act as one protection to the grains.');">⁸</span>

ת"ש דתנא דבי רבי ישמעאל

Granted, however, that the upper rows need the lower ones; but do the lower need the upper ones?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The lower rows of grain support the upper rows and if the lower rows were to fall away the upper rows, losing their support, would fall away too; hence from the point of view of the upper rows the entire ear of corn serves as one whole protection. On the other hand, the lower rows can stand without the upper ones for it has its own protection, and the fact that the upper and lower rows in the ear can be reckoned together proves that two protections can be reckoned together.');">⁹</span>

(ויקרא יא, לז) על כל זרע זרוע (אשר יזרע) כדרך שבני אדם מוציאין לזריעה חטה בקליפתה ושעורה בקליפתה ועדשים בקליפתן

- We are dealing here with one row only.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., the protection and the grains on one row only must make up the quantity of an egg's bulk.');">¹⁰</span>

כדאמר רב אחא בריה דרבא

But is there ever as much as an egg's bulk of foodstuff in one row? - Yes, in the wheat grains of Simeon B'Shetah.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' In his time the grains of wheat were of extraordinary size, v. Ta'an. 23a.');">¹¹</span>

בקולחא ומשום יד

And now that you have arrived at this, you may say that it refers to a single grain of wheat, but of the wheat grains of Simeon B'Shetah.

הכא נמי

[To revert to] the [above] text: If there were two bones [of a corpse] that bore [at one end] a half olive's of flesh and a man brought into a house the other two ends, and the house overshadowed them, the house becomes unclean.

בשדרה ומשום שומר

Judah B'Nakosa says in the name of R'Jacob: How can two bones [each bearing only a half olive's bulk of flesh at the other end] be reckoned together to make up an olive's bulk'?

בשלמא עיליתא צריכי לתתיתא אלא תתיתא מאי צריכי לעיליתא

R'Simeon B'Lakish said: This was taught only with regard to a bone which is considered a handle, but a hair is not considered a handle.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' But only a protection. And there is this qualification with regard to a protection, namely, that the contact must be made with the protection that is directly opposite the foodstuff.');">¹²</span>

בחד דראומי איכא כביצה אוכלין בחד דרא

R'Johanan however said: Even a hair is considered a handle.

בחטי דשמעון בן שטח השתא דאתית להכי חדא חטה נמי בחטי דשמעון בן שטח

R'Johanan raised the following objection against R'Simeon B'Lakish: If there was an olive's bulk of [unclean] flesh adhering to the hide and a man touched a shred hanging from it,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The flesh. But, v. infra 124a.');">¹³</span>

גופא שני עצמות ועליהן שני חצאי זיתים והכניס ראשיהן שנים לבית והבית מאהיל עליהן הבית טמא

or a hair that was opposite it,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., on the outside of the hide, opposite the flesh.');">¹⁴</span>

יהודה בן נקוסא אומר משום רבי יעקב

he becomes unclean.

היאך שני עצמות מצטרפין לכזית

It is, is it not, because it [the hair] is regarded as a handle? - No, it is because it is regarded as a protection.

אמר ריש לקיש

But can there be a protection over another protection?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' For the skin is itself a protection and the hair is above the skin.');">¹⁵</span>

לא שנו אלא עצם דהוי יד אבל נימא לא הויא יד

- It penetrates right through.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The hair penetrates through the skin to the flesh, so that it serves as a protection to the flesh, and not as a protection to the hide, so that it is not a protection over another protection.');">¹⁶</span>

ורבי יוחנן אמר

R'Aha B'Jacob demurred, [saying:] If so, how may we write Tefillin?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., phylacteries which contain scrolls of parchment with special selected passages written thereon. Cf. Deut. VI, 8.');">¹⁷</span>

אפילו נימא נמי הויא יד

Surely it is necessary that the writing be perfect, and it is not so?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Since the hair penetrates the hide the parchment made from it must perforce be full of holes, and any writing on it must be interrupted as the pen passes over these holes, and this invalidates the scroll.');">¹⁸</span>

איתיביה ר' יוחנן לר"ל

- [In raising this objection] he must have overlooked the statement [of the Rabbis] in the West, viz. , Any hole [in parchment] over which the ink can pass is not considered a hole.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The holes are so minute that the pen passes smoothly over them, even the ink does not collect in these holes.');">¹⁹</span>

עור שיש עליו כזית בשר הנוגע בציב היוצא ממנו ובשערה שכנגדו טמא

Or if you wish, you may answer: Each<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Sc. the shred of flesh and the hair.');">²⁰</span>

מאי לאו משום יד

is considered a handle, for as R'Ila'a referred [elsewhere] to a bristle among many bristles, so here too it refers to a hair among many hairs.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' It is conceded by R. Simeon b. Lakish that many hairs taken together can serve as a handle, but a single hair, he maintains, cannot, for it would certainly snap when attempting to lift the bulk by it.');">²¹</span>

לא משום שומר ומי איכא שומר על גבי שומר

And where was this view of R'Ila'a stated?

חלחולי מחלחל מתקיף לה רב אחא בר יעקב

In connection with the following [Mishnah]:<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' 'Uk. I, 3.');">²²</span>

אלא מעתה תפילין היכי כתבינן

The bristles<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., the spiky growth at the end of an ear of corn; the awn or the beard.');">²³</span>

הא בעינן כתיבה תמה וליכא

of ears of corn bring in uncleanness and convey uncleanness,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' For they are regarded as handles.');">²⁴</span>

אשתמיטתיה הא דאמרי במערבא

but are not included together [with the rest to make up the quantity necessary to convey uncleanness].

כל נקב שהדיו עובר עליו אינו נקב ואיבעית אימא

Of what use is a bristle?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' How can it serve as a handle seeing that it would break off as soon as one took hold of it?');">²⁵</span>

כוליה משום יד כדאמר רבי אלעא במלאי שבין המלאים הכא נמי

R'Ila'a replied: It refers to a bristle among many bristles.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' By grasping many awns together one can obtain a firm hold on the ears of corn.');">²⁶</span>

בנימא שבין הנימין והיכא אתמר דר' אלעא

Another version renders the argument as follows: It is more reasonable to say that it [a hair] is regarded a a protection, for should you say it is regarded as a handle [it will be asked]: Of what use is one hair? - As R'Ila'a referred [elsewhere] to a bristle among many bristles, so here, too, it refers to a hair among hairs.

אהא

A where was this view of R'Ila'a stated?

מלאי שבשבלים מיטמאין ומטמאין ואינן מצטרפין

In connection with the following Mishnah: The bristles of ears of corn bring in uncleanness and convey uncleanness, but are not included together with the rest.

מלאי למאי חזי

Of what use is a bristle? - R'Ila'a replied: It refers to a bristle among many bristles.

אמר רבי אלעאי במלאי שבין המלאים

Some refer it<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The above dispute between R. Johanan and Resh Lakish.');">²⁷</span>

לישנא אחרינא אמרי לה

הכי נמי מסתברא דמשום שומר דאי סלקא דעתך משום יד נימא אחת למאי חזי

כדאמר ר' אלעא במלאי שבין המלאין הכא נמי בנימא שבין הנימין

והיכא איתמר דר' אלעאי

אהא

דתנן

המלאי שבשבלים מיטמאין ומטמאין ואין מצטרפין

מלאי למאי חזי

אמר רבי אלעאי

במלאי שבין המלאים

ואיכא דמתני לה