Chullin 96

דגלדאי ואמרי לה

, we noticed lungs covered with large tumors and he [R'Nahman] said nothing about it'.

בשוקא דרבנן חזי הנך דקיימן כנדי כנדי ולא אמר להו ולא מידי

R'Ammi and R'Assi were once passing through the market place of Tiberias when they saw lungs covered with large and hard lumps, and they said nothing to them [the butchers] about it.

רבי אמי ורבי אסי הוו חלפי בשוקא דטבריא חזי הנך דקיימי טינרי טינרי ולא אמרי להו ולא מידי:

It was stated: If a needle was found in the lungs, R'Johanan, R'Eleazar and R'Hanina declare the animal permitted; R'Simeon B'Lakish, R'Mani B'Patish and R'Simeon B'Eliakim declare it trefah.

אתמר מחט שנמצאת בריאה רבי יוחנן ורבי אלעזר ורבי חנינא מכשרי רבי שמעון בן לקיש ורבי מני בר פטיש ורבי שמעון בן אליקים טרפי

Shall we say that they disagree upon the following law viz. , The latter hold that a deficiency within<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' In this case the needle would corrode the tissues of the lungs, thus forming a deficiency within.');">¹</span>

לימא בהא קמיפלגי דמר סבר

[the lung] is considered to be a defect, whereas the former hold that it is not a defect? - No.

חסרון מבפנים שמיה חסרון ומר סבר

All hold that a deficiency within is not a defect, but they disagree in this: the former assume that it entered [the lung] via the bronchus,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' And therefore need not have pierced any of the internal organs; for the needle, it is assumed, passed down the trachea and entered directly, via the bronchus, into the lungs.');">²</span>

לא שמיה חסרון

whereas the latter assume that it pierced [some organ] before it entered.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' These are of the opinion that the needle was swallowed by the animal together with its food and it passed down into the alimentary passages. The needle therefore must have pierced one of these, either the oesophagus or one of the stomachs, and made its way into the lungs.');">³</span>

לא דכולי עלמא

A needle was once found in a portion of the lung and it was brought before R'Ammi.

חסרון מבפנים לא שמיה חסרון והכא בהא קמיפלגי מר סבר

He was about to declare it permitted when R'Jeremiah (others say: R'Zerika) raised the following objection against him: [We have learnt:] IF THE LUNG WAS PIERCED OR WAS DEFICIENT.

סמפונא נקט ואתאי ומר סבר

Now what does deficient mean?

נקובי נקיב ואתאי

Should you say it means a deficiency from the outside, but that would be identical with 'pierced'.

ההיא מחטא דאשתכח בחיתוכא דריאה אייתוה לקמיה דרבי אמי סבר לאכשורה

It must mean therefore a deficiency within, thus proving that a deficiency within is considered a defect.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' And around the needle there must have set in decay due to corrosion, which eventually formed a deficiency within.');">⁴</span>

איתיביה רבי ירמיה ואיתימא רבי זריקא

The case was then sent to R'Isaac Nappaha, who was also about to declare it permitted when R'Jeremiah (others say: R'Zerika) raised the following objection against him: [We have learnt:] IF THE LUNG WAS PIERCED OR WAS DEFICIENT.

הריאה שניקבה או שחסרה מאי חסרה

Now what does 'deficient' mean?

אילימא מבחוץ היינו ניקבה

Should you say it means a deficiency from the outside, but that would be identical with 'pierced'.

אלא לאו מבפנים וש"מ

It must therefore mean a deficiency within, thus proving that a deficiency within is considered a defect.

חסרון מבפנים שמיה חסרון

The case was then sent back to R'Ammi and he now declared it trefah; whereupon his students said to him, But the Rabbis<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' R. Johanan, R. Eleazar and R. Hanina supra.');">⁵</span>

הדר שדרוה לקמיה דרבי יצחק נפחא סבר לאכשורה

have declared it permitted.

איתיביה רבי ירמיה ואיתימא ר' זריקה

He replied: They permitted it because they saw good grounds for permitting it,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' As they had the entire lungs before them and saw that there was no perforation in them. The needle therefore could only have entered via the bronchus.');">⁶</span>

הריאה שניקבה או שחסרה

but what grounds have we for permitting it?

מאי חסרה

perhaps if the entire lung was before us we should have found it perforated!

אילימא מבחוץ היינו ניקבה

Now the reason [for declaring it trefah] was that the entire lung was not before us, but if it were before u and was without perforation it would be permitted.

אלא לאו מבפנים וש"מ

But has not R'Nahman stated that if one of the bronchial tubes was perforated it is trefah?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' And in our case the needle, conceding even that it came directly via the bronchus, must have pierced one of the bronchial tubes to be found, as indeed it was, in the tissue of the lungs.');">⁷</span>

חסרון מבפנים שמיה חסרון

- That is so only where the perforation [in the bronchial tube] lies next to another [bronchial tube].<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., the perforation is at the point where the bronchial tubes branch out. The adjacent tube cannot cover up firmly the hole in this tube as its wall is hard and cartilaginous, whereas elsewhere the tissue of the lung would stop up the perforation.');">⁸</span>

הדר שדרוה לקמיה דר' אמי וטרפה

But has not R'Nahman taught that if in the colon an intestine was perforated in that part where it lies next to another [intestine, it is permitted, for] the latter affords a covering? - R'Ashi replied: Are you comparing defects with each other?

אמרי ליה

Amongst the various defects we cannot say that this resembles that; for an animal may be cut in one place and die, and in another place and live.

והא רבנן מכשרי

A needle was once found in the large bronchus.

אמר להן

The case was brought before those Rabbis<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Sc. R. Mani, Resh Lakish and R. Simeon.');">⁹</span>

הן הכשירו שיודעים מאיזה טעם הכשירו אנן מאיזה טעם נכשיר

who in the previous case<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Where the needle was found in the substance of the lungs.');">¹⁰</span>

דלמא אי הוה ריאה קמן מינקבה

ruled that it was trefah; but they neither forbade nor permitted it.

טעמא דליתא הא איתא ולא מינקבה כשרה

They did not permit it, by reason of their aforementioned view; yet they did not forbid it, because, since it was found in the large bronchus, it most probably<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' So Rashi. Lit., 'say'.');">¹¹</span>

והאמר רב נחמן

entered it [via the windpipe].

האי סמפונא דריאה דאינקיב טרפה

A needle was once found in a portion of the liver.

ההוא לחבירו אתמר

Mar, son of R'Joseph, was about to declare [the animal] trefah when R'Ashi said to him, Sir, and if it were found in the flesh [of the animal] would you also declare it trefah?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Surely not. The perforation of the flesh or of the liver is not a defect.');">¹²</span>

והאמר רב נחמן

Rather, said R'Ashi, We must see: if the head<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., the thick head or knob of a pin or nail. It is assumed that a pin in the body would always travel point first and therefore if the point is turned inwards within an organ it must have entered that organ from the outside.');">¹³</span>

האי הדורא דכנתא דאינקיב להדי חבריה מגין עליה

of the needle is outside [the liver it is trefah, it must have pierced [the internal organs] and entered; but if the head is inside [it is permitted, for] it must have entered via the vein!<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Probably the ductus choledocus. The needle in all probability passed down into the alimentary passage, into the intestines, and thence into the liver via this duct, without piercing any organ. V. Katzenelsohn, pp. 180-183.');">¹⁴</span>

אמר רב אשי

This is the rule, however, only in the case of a large needle, but in the case of fine needle there is no difference whether the head was outside [the liver] or inside,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' In either case it is trefah.');">¹⁵</span>

טרפות קא מדמי להדדי

for it is always to be assumed that it pierced [the internal organs] before it entered.

אין אומרין בטרפות זו דומה לזו שהרי חותכה מכאן ומתה חותכה מכאן וחיה

And why is this case different from that of a needle which was found

ההיא מחטא דאישתכח בסמפונא רבה דריאה אתיוה לקמיה דרבנן טרופאי לא אמרו בה לא איסור ולא היתר

היתר לא אמרי בה כשמעתייהו איסור נמי לא אמרי בה כיון דבסמפונא רבה אישתכח אימא

סמפונא נקט ואתאי

ההיא מחטא דאישתכח בחתיכה דכבדא סבר מר בריה דרב יוסף למיטרפה

אמר ליה רב אשי

אילו אשתכח בבשרא כה"ג הוה טריף מר

אלא אמר רב אשי

חזינא אי קופא לבר נקובי נקיב ואתאי אי קופא לגיו סמפונא נקט ואתאי

וה"מ באלימתא אבל קטינתא לא שנא קופא לגיו לא שנא קופא לבר נקובי נקיב ואתאי

ומאי שנא ממחט שנמצאת