Gittin 11

Chapter 11

א אפי' קן קולמוסא וקן מגילתא
1 Even if he only heard the scratching of the pen and the rustling of the sheet,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Aliter 'the sound of the pen and the paper as they were being prepared'. ');"><sup>1</sup></span>
ב תניא כוותיה דרב אשי המביא גט ממדינת הים אפי' הוא בבית וסופר בעלייה הוא בעלייה וסופר בבית אפי' נכנס ויוצא כל היום כולו כשר
2 it is sufficient. It has been taught in agreement with R. Ashi: 'If a Get is brought from foreign parts, even if the bearer was downstairs while the scribe was upstairs, or upstairs while the scribe was downstairs, the Get is valid, or even if he was going in and out all day, the Get is valid.' [Now in the case where] he is downstairs and the scribe is upstairs [you may ask, how can this be,] seeing that the bearer cannot have seen him [while writing]?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' [It is assumed that where the bearer is upstairs he can see the scribe who is working downstairs. V. Trani, who preserves a reading to this effect.] ');"><sup>2</sup></span>
ג הוא בבית וסופר בעלייה הא לא קא חזי ליה אלא לאו כגון דשמע קן קולמוסא וקן מגילתא
3 Obviously [what is meant is] that he, for instance, heard the scratching of the pen and the rustling of the sheet.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' And this is deemed to be sufficient. ');"><sup>3</sup></span>
ד אמר מר אפי' נכנס ויוצא כל היום כולו כשר מאן אילימא שליח השתא הוא בבית וסופר בעלייה דלא חזי ליה אמרת כשר נכנס ויוצא מיבעיא אלא סופר פשיטא משום דנכנס ויוצא נפסליניה
4 The Master said: 'Even if he was going in and out all day the Get is valid'. Who is referred to by 'he'? Shall I say it is the bearer? Hardly; for if the Get is valid even when he was in a different room and so did not see it at all, is there any question that it is valid when he simply was going in and out [of the same room]? [Shall I say] then it is the scribe? Surely this is self-evident. Because he leaves the room sometimes [in the middle of writing]. is that any ground for declaring the Get invalid? — It is not [so self-evident]. It is necessary to state the case where he went out into the street and returned. You might say that another man [of the same name] has come across him and commissioned him to write a Get.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' And therefore the Get was not written expressly for the woman to whom the bearer is intended to take it. ');"><sup>4</sup></span>
ה לא צריכא דנפק לשוקא ואתא מהו דתימא איניש אחרינא אשכחיה ואמר ליה קמ"ל:
5 Now we know [that this objection is not maintained].
ו איתמר בבל רב אמר כא"י לגיטין ושמואל אמר כחו"ל
6 It has been stated: Babylonia has been declared by Rab to be in the same category with the Land of Israel in respect of writs of divorce, and by Samuel to be in the same category with foreign parts.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' [H] lit., 'outside the Land'. ');"><sup>5</sup></span>
ז לימא בהא קא מיפלגי דמר סבר לפי שאין בקיאין לשמה והני גמירי ומ"ס לפי שאין עדים מצויין לקיימו והני נמי לא שכיחי
7 May we assume their point of divergence to be this, that one of them held the reason for requiring the declaration to be that [Jews outside the Land of Israel] are not familiar with the rule of 'special intention', so that [the Babylonians,] being familiar, [are in the same category with the Palestinians], whereas the other held the reason to be the difficulty of finding witnesses to confirm [the signatures], and the same difficulty is found [in Babylonia]? — Can you really presume this, seeing that Rabbah also accepts Raba's reason? No. Both [Rab and Samuel] agree that the Get requires confirmation. Rab, however, is of opinion that since there are Talmudical Colleges in Babylonia witnesses can always be found,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' As students and other people are always going from various places to the colleges. ');"><sup>6</sup></span>
ח ותסברא הא רבה אית ליה דרבא
8 while Samuel is of opinion that the Colleges are taken up with their studies.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' And therefore the students there do not recognise the signatures. ');"><sup>7</sup></span>
ט אלא דכ"ע בעינן לקיימו רב סבר כיון דאיכא מתיבתא מישכח שכיחי ושמואל סבר מתיבתא בגירסייהו טרידי
9 It has also been stated that R. Abba said in the name of R. Huna: 'In Babylonia we have put ourselves on the same level as Eretz Israel in respect of bills of divorce from the time when Rab came to Babylon.'<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' In the year 219 C.E. [He founded, after his return the second time from Palestine, the school of Sura to which there flocked students from all parts. This gave an impetus to the study of the Law and made Babylonia a centre of learning for centuries (Rashi). Tosaf.: Since Rab came and insisted that Babylonia never ceased to be a centre of Torah study, since the days of the exile of Jehoiachin with the flower of Judea. V. II Kings XXIV, 14. Obermeyer. Die Landschaft Babylonien. p. 306, points out that the name 'Babylon' stands here, as in other places in the Talmud, for Sura which was in the neighbourhood of the old great city, Babylon, and in contradistinction to Nehardea, where he had his former seat.] ');"><sup>8</sup></span>
י איתמר נמי אמר ר' אבא אמר רב הונא עשינו עצמינו בבבל כא"י לגיטין מכי אתא רב לבבל
10 R. Jeremiah raised an objection: R. JUDAH SAYS, FOREIGN PARTS EXTEND FROM REKEM EASTWARDS, REKEM BEING INCLUDED; FROM ASKELON SOUTHWARD, ASKELON BEING INCLUDED: AND FROM ACCO NORTHWARDS, ACCO BEING INCLUDED. Now Babylon is north of Eretz Israel, as we learn from the verse of the Scripture, And the Lord said to me, Out of the north the evil shall break forth.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Jer. I, 14. ');"><sup>9</sup></span>
יא מתיב ר' ירמיה ר' יהודה אומר מרקם למזרח ורקם כמזרח מאשקלון לדרום ואשקלון כדרום מעכו לצפון ועכו כצפון והא בבל לצפונה דא"י קיימא דכתיב (ירמיהו א, יד) ויאמר ה' אלי מצפון תפתח הרעה
11 It is true, the Mishnah continues: R. MEIR SAYS, ACCO COUNTS AS PART OF THE LAND OF ISRAEL IN THE MATTER OF BILLS OF DIVORCE; but even R. Meir only excepted Acco, which is close to Eretz Israel, but not Babylon, which is remote!<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' [Tosaf. appeals to this question in support of its interpretation cited n. 3.] ');"><sup>10</sup></span>
יב ותנן ר"מ אומר עכו כא"י לגיטין ואפי' ר"מ לא קאמר אלא בעכו דמקרבא אבל בבל דמרחקא לא הוא מותיב לה והוא מפרק לה לבר מבבל
12 — R. Jeremiah asked the question and he himself answered [by saying that] 'Babylon is an exception.
יג עד היכן היא היא בבל אמר רב פפא כמחלוקת ליוחסין כך מחלוקת לגיטין ורב יוסף אמר מחלוקת ליוחסין אבל לגיטין דברי הכל עד ארבא תניינא דגישרא
13 How far does Babylon extend? — R. Papa says: On this question there is the same difference of opinion in respect of bills of divorce as there is in respect of family descent.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The Jews of Babylonia being reputed to have preserved their racial purity more strictly than the Jews of any other part. v. Kid. 72a. ');"><sup>11</sup></span>
יד רב חסדא מצריך מאקטיספון לבי ארדשיר ומבי ארדשיר לאקטיספון לא מצריך לימא קסבר לפי שאין בקיאין לשמה והני גמירי
14 R. Joseph, however, says that the difference of opinion exists only in respect of family descent, but in respect of bills of divorce all parties are agreed that Babylonia extends to the second boat of the [floating] bridge.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' [Over the Euphrates north of Samosata, v. Berliner, A., Beitrage p. 21; v. also Kid. 72a.] ');"><sup>12</sup></span>
טו ותסברא והא רבה אית ליה דרבא אלא דכ"ע בעינן לקיימו והני כיון דאזלי לשוקא להתם הנך ידעי בחתימות ידא דהני
15 R. Hisda required [the declaration to be made by the bearer of a Get] from Ktesifon to Be-Ardashir, but not [by one who brought it] from Be-Ardashir to Ktesifon.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' [Two neighbouring places, the former on the eastern, the latter on the western bank of the Tigris. Ktesifon was the larger place of the two, and a marketing centre for the neighbouring towns. V. Obermeyer op. cit. pp. 164ff.] ');"><sup>13</sup></span>
טז והני בדהנך לא ידעי מ"ט בשוקייהו טרידי
16 May we presume that he considered the reason [for requiring the declaration to be that Jews in foreign parts] are not familiar with the rule of 'special intention', and that the people of Be-Ardashir are familiar? — How can you presume this, seeing that Rabbah accepts Raba's reason also? But in point of fact all authorities are agreed that confirmation [of the Get] is required, and the reason of R. Hisda is that as the people of Be-Ardashir go to Ktesifon to market, the inhabitants of the latter are familiar with their signatures,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Because the Be-Ardashir people often buy their goods on credit against promissory notes which they leave with the Ktesifon merchants. ');"><sup>14</sup></span>
יז רבה בר אבוה מצריך מערסא לערסא רב ששת מצריך משכונה לשכונה ורבא מצריך באותה שכונה
17 but not vice versa, because the Be-Ardashir [buyers] are busy with their marketing. Rabba b. Abbuha required [the declaration to be made if the Get was brought] from one side of the street to the other; R. Shesheth if it was brought from one block [of buildings] to another; and Raba even [from one house to another] within the same block. But was it not Raba who said that the reason was because it was not easy to find witnesses to confirm the signatures? — The people of Mahuzah<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Where Raba had his seminary. ');"><sup>15</sup></span>
יח והא רבא הוא דאמר לפי שאין עדים מצויין לקיימו שאני בני מחוזא דניידי
18 are different, because they are always on the move.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' [To sell their merchandise which was brought along the Tigris and Euphrates and caravan routes to Mahuzah which was a great trading centre. V. Obermeyer op. cit. p. 173.] ');"><sup>16</sup></span>
יט רב חנין מישתעי רב כהנא אייתי גיטא ולא ידענא אי מסורא לנהרדעא אי מנהרדעא לסורא אתא לקמיה דרב א"ל צריכנא למימר בפני נכתב ובפני נחתם או לא צריכנא אמר ליה לא צריכת
19 R. Hanin related the following: R. Kahana brought a Get either from Sura to Nehardea or from Nehardea to Sura, I do not know which, and consulted Rab as to whether he was required to declare, 'In my presence it was written and in my presence it was signed.' Rab said to him: You are not required,
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