Gittin 178

Chapter 178

א לחד מבני פלניא אמר רבא אפי' למאן דאמר לא מבטלינן קלא בהא מבטלינן קלא מימר אמרי עיינו בהו רבנן בקידושי וקידושי קטן הוו
1 to one of the sons of a certain man. Raba thereupon said: Even those authorities who hold that we should not as a rule suppress a report would advise that here we should suppress it, as people will only say that the Rabbis examined her engagement and found that it was contracted by a minor.
ב ההיא דנפק עלה קלא דאיקדשה לקטן הנראה כגדול א"ל רב מרדכי לרב אשי הוה עובדא ואמרו עדיין לא הגיע לפלגות ראובן שנאמר (שופטים ה, טז) לפלגות ראובן גדולים חקרי לב:
2 A certain woman was reported to have become engaged to a minor who looked like an adult. In connection with this R. Mordecai said to R. Ashi: In a similar case which occurred, they said that he had not yet attained to 'the divisions of Reuben',<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., to years of discretion. People would conclude that in spite of his appearance he was not yet grown-up, and therefore the suppression of the report would do no harm. ');"><sup>1</sup></span>
ג ובלבד שלא תהא שם אמתלא: אמר רבה בר רב הונא אמתלא שאמרו אפי' מכאן ועד עשרה ימים רב זביד אמר במקום אמתלא חוששין לאמתלא
3 referring to the verse, Among the divisions of Reuben there were great searchings of heart.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Jud. V, 15. The verse is rendered thus: 'Among the divisions of Reuben it is only the grownups who are rational'. ');"><sup>2</sup></span>
ד איתיביה רב פפא לרב זביד ובלבד שלא תהא שם אמתלא א"ל במקום אמתלא קאמר
4 PROVIDED THE REPORT HAS NO QUALIFICATION. Rabbah b. R. Huna said: The 'qualification' they had in mind might be made ten days later. R. Zebid said: If there is room for a qualification,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., if the circumstances were such that the report might have been qualified, though it actually was not. ');"><sup>3</sup></span>
ה א"ל רב כהנא לרב פפא ואת לא תסברא והתנן נתקדשה ואח"כ בא בעלה מותרת לחזור לאו משום דאמרי' על תנאי קדיש
5 we suspect a qualification. R. Papa raised to R. Zebid an objection from the following: PROVIDED THE REPORT HAS NO QUALIFICATION? — He replied: It means, provided there is no room for a qualification. Said R. Kahana to R. Papa: Do you not concur with this, seeing that we have learnt,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Yeb. 92a. ');"><sup>4</sup></span>
ו שאני התם דאתי בעל וקא מערער
6 'If a woman [who heard from one witness that her husband had died] became betrothed and then her husband turned up, she is allowed to return to him'.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Here apparently is a case of a report without qualification that a woman is engaged being disregarded. ');"><sup>5</sup></span>
ז אי הכי נישאת נמי נישאת דעבדה איסורא קנסוה רבנן נתקדשה דלא עבדה איסורא לא קנסוה רבנן
7 Now is not the reason [for disregarding the report] because we say that the second betrothed her conditionally?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Viz., on condition that her husband had divorced her, and although this qualification was not actually added to the report, there was room for it, and therefore we allow it to neutralise the report. ');"><sup>6</sup></span>
ח אמר רב אשי כל קלא דלא איתחזק בבי דינא לאו קלא הוא וא"ר אשי כל קלא דבתר נישואין לא חיישינן ליה הא דבתר אירוסין חיישינן ליה רב חביבא אמר אפילו דבתר אירוסין נמי לא חיישינן ליה והלכתא לא חיישינן ליה
8 — There is a special reason there, namely that the husband challenges the betrothal.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' He is there to say that he never divorced his wife in the first instance, and therefore the betrothal to the second was invalid. ');"><sup>7</sup></span>
ט אמר רב ירמיה בר אבא שלחו ליה מבי רב לשמואל ילמדנו רבינו יצא עליה קול מראשון ובא אחר וקדשה קידושי תורה מהו שלח להו תצא והעמידו הדבר על בוריו והודיעוני
9 If that is the case, then why cannot she return to him even if she married the second? — By marrying she committed an offence<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Although in such a case the Rabbis permitted her to marry, yet they expected her to make further inquiries, and if after she married the first husband turned up, they penalised her, v. Yeb. 87b. ');"><sup>8</sup></span>
י מאי (והעמידו הדבר על בוריו) אילימא דאי מגליא מילתא דקידושי דקמא לאו קידושי מעליא נינהו מבטלינן קלא והא נהרדעא אתרי' דשמואל הוא ולא מבטלי קלא אלא דאי מיגליא מילתא דקידושי קמא קידושי מעליא נינהו לא צריכה גט משני
10 and therefore the Rabbis penalised her, but in becoming betrothed she committed no offence and therefore the Rabbis did not penalise her.
יא ופליגא דרב הונא דאמר רב הונא אשת איש שפשטה ידה וקיבלה קידושין מאחר מקודשת
11 R. Ashi said: A report which has not been confirmed in the <i>Beth din</i><span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' And found to have some substance. ');"><sup>9</sup></span>
יב מדרב המנונא דאמר רב המנונא האשה שאמרה לבעלה גירשתני נאמנת חזקה אין אשה מעיזה פניה בפני בעלה
12 is no report. R. Ashi further said: We pay no heed to reports spread after marriage. This implies that we do pay heed to reports spread after betrothal? — R. Habiba said: We pay no attention to reports spread after betrothal either. The law is that we pay no heed to such reports.
יג ואידך כי אתמר דרב המנונא בפניו שלא בפניו מעיזה ומעיזה
13 R. Jeremiah b. Abba said: The disciples of Rab sent to Samuel saying: Would our Master be so good as to instruct us. If a woman was reported to have been engaged to one man, and then another came and betrothed her with full formality,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lit., 'betrothed according to the Torah'. I.e., in the presence of witnesses. ');"><sup>10</sup></span>
יד לא מצאו דבר על בוריו מהו
14 what is to be done? He sent back reply: She must leave him, but I want you to ascertain the facts and inform me. What did he mean by saying, 'I want you to ascertain the facts'? Shall I say his object was that if it turned out that the first betrothal was not a valid one the report should be suppressed? How can this be seeing that Samuel was located in Nehardea, and in Nehardea it was not the custom to suppress a report?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' And though in Sura, the place of Rab, it was the custom, Samuel would naturally rule according to the custom of his own place. ');"><sup>11</sup></span>
טו א"ר הונא מגרש ראשון ונושא שני אבל מגרש שני ונושא ראשון לא מאי טעמא אתי למימר מחזיר גרושתו מן האירוסין
15 — His object must therefore have been that if it turned out that the first betrothal was a valid one she would not require a Get from the second. In this he joined issue with R. Huna, who said that if a married woman put out her hand and took the betrothal money from another, she thereby became engaged. [This again is based] on the dictum of R. Hamnuna who said: If a woman says to her husband, You have divorced me, her word is to be accepted, since the presumption is that a woman would not be so brazen as to say this in front of her husband [if it was not true].<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' V. supra 64b. ');"><sup>12</sup></span>
טז רב שיננא בריה דרב אידי אמר אף מגרש שני ונושא ראשון מימר אמרי עייני רבנן בקידושי וקידושי טעות הוה
16 And the other [Samuel]? — [He can reply:] R. Hamnuna would maintain this only where she speaks in the presence of the husband, but if he is not present she would certainly be impudent enough to say this.
יז יצא עליה קול מזה ומזה מהו אמר רב פפא אף זו מגרש ראשון ונושא שני אמימר אמר מותרת לשניהם
17 Suppose they could not ascertain the truth of the matter, what [was to happen]? — R. Huna said: The first would have to divorce her and the second could then marry her; but it would not be right for the second to divorce her and the first to marry her. What is the reason? Because people might say that here is a man who is taking back a woman who has been betrothed to him and divorced.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' After having become the wife of another man, in violation of Deut. XXIV, 2. ');"><sup>13</sup></span> R. Shinnena<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Al. Shisha. ');"><sup>14</sup></span> the son of R. Idi, however, said that it is allowable also for the second to divorce her and the first to marry her, because people would merely say that the Rabbis had examined the betrothal [of the second] and found it invalid.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' And so no scandal would arise, ');"><sup>15</sup></span> Suppose she was reported [to have become betrothed] to both one<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The betrothal to the second was also based on mere report. ');"><sup>16</sup></span> and the other, what is to be done? — R. papa said: In this case also the first must divorce her and the second can then marry her. Amemar, however, said that she is allowed to marry either,
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