Keritot 29

שחטה ואת בת בתה ואח"כ שחט את בתה סופג את הארבעים סומכוס אומר משום רבי מאיר

If one slaughtered an animal together with its young's calf, and then the young itself,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' This refers to the law concerning the killing on the same day of a young together with its mother, Lev. XXII, 28. By killing a beast after its mother as well as its own young had previously been slaughtered on the same day, an act not yet punishable, he committed a double sin, or rather he transgressed the prohibition twice in one act.');">¹</span>

סופג שמונים

he is liable to forty lashes.

אמר רבא

Symmachus said in the name of R'Meir: To eighty.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Forty lashes means actually one set of thirty-nine strokes. 'Forty' is a term adopted from the text (Deut. XXV, 3) . Eighty lashes means twofold flagellation.');">²</span>

דלמא לא היא עד כאן לא קאמר ר' יוחנן בן נורי הכא אלא משום שמות מוחלקין דמיקריא חמותו ומיקריא אם חמותו ומיקריא אם חמיו אבל גבי אותו ואת בנו דכולהו אותו ואת בנו מיקריין דאין שמות מוחלקין לא

Said Raba: There is, perhaps, no comparison.

אמר רב נחמן בר יצחק

Maybe R'Johanan B'Nuri maintains his view only in the instance of our Mishnah, because the prohibitions are at least of different designations; for she may be described as his mother-in-law and also as the mother of his mother-in-law and the mother of his father-in-law.

דלמא עד כאן לא קאמר סומכוס אלא גבי אותו ואת בנו דגופין מוחלקין אבל הכא דאין גופין מוחלקין אימא כר' אבהו א"ר יוחנן ס"ל דא"ר אבהו א"ר יוחנן

In the instance, however, concerning the killing of a mother-animal and its young, where there is only one designation, and all such cases are known by the one name, maybe his ruling will not hold good.

(ויקרא יח, יז) שארה הנה זמה היא הכתוב עשאן לכולן זמה אחת:

R'Nahman B'Isaac raised his doubt [in the opposite direction].

<big><strong>מתני׳</strong></big> אמר רבי עקיבא

Maybe Symmachus maintains his view only in the case of the law concerning the killing of mother and young, because the objects are different;<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The twofold flagellation was caused by the mother of the last-killed animal as well as by its young.');">³</span>

שאלתי את רבן גמליאל ואת ר' יהושע באיטליס של עימאום שהלכו ליקח בהמה למשתה בנו של רבן גמליאל

in the instance of our Mishnah, however, where there is only one object,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' There is only one person who happens to be inter-related with him in several ways. vrta');">⁴</span>

הבא על אחותו ועל אחות אביו ועל אחות אמו מהו

I might perhaps argue that he [Symmachus] held with the ruling of R'Abbahu delivered in the name of R'Johanan.

חייב אחת על כולן או חייב על כל אחת ואחת

For R'Abbahu said in the name of R'Johanan: In the expression, They are near kinswomen; it is wickedness,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lev. XVIII, 17. is in the singular, to indicate that even if several inter-relations are combined in one woman she is still a kinswoman singly, and subject to one sacrifice only.');">⁵</span>

אמרו לו

Scripture indicates that they are all one kind of wickedness.

לא שמענו אבל שמענו

<big><b>MISHNAH: </b></big>SAID R'AKIBA: I ASKED RABBAN GAMALIEL AND R'JOSHUA AT THE MEAT-MARKET OF EMMAUS, WHITHER THEY WENT TO BUY A BEAST FOR THE WEDDING FEAST OF RABBAN GAMALIEL'S SON, WHAT [IS THE LAW] IF A MAN HAD INTERCOURSE [INADVERTENTLY] WITH HIS SISTER, HIS FATHER'S SISTER AND HIS MOTHER'S SISTER;<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Here in some versions is added: 'in one spell of unawareness', suggesting that the query referred to three different women; v. GEMARA:');">⁶</span>

הבא על ה' נשיו נדות בהעלם אחת שהוא חייב על כל אחת ואחת (ורואה אני) שהדברים ק"ו:

IS HE LIABLE TO ONE OFFERING FOR ALL THE TRESPASSES, OR TO ONE [SEPARATE OFFERING] FOR EACH OF THEM?

<big><strong>גמ׳</strong></big> היכי דמי

THEY REPLIED: WE HAVE HEARD NOTHING [ABOUT THIS], BUT WE HAVE HEARD THAT IF ONE HAD INTERCOURSE WITH HIS FIVE WIVES, WHILE THEY WERE MENSTRUANT, IN ONE SPELL OF UNAWARENESS, HE IS LIABLE TO A SACRIFICE FOR EACH [ACT], AND IT SEEMS TO US THAT THE CASE [YOU STATE] MAY BE DERIVED THEREFROM BY AN A FORTIORI CONCLUSION.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Since in the latter instance the sin is each time the same.');">⁷</span>

אילימא כדקתני מאי תיבעי ליה

<big><b>GEMARA: </b></big>How is the query to be understood?

הרי שמות מוחלקין הרי גופין מוחלקין

If as is stated,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Viz., that it referred to three different women, each falling under a different prohibition, though the three sins were committed in one spell of unawareness.');">⁸</span>

אלא הכי קתני

what question is there, seeing that the prohibitions as well as the persons involved are distinct!<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lit. 'the names are distinct and the bodies are distinct'.');">⁹</span>

הבא על אחות אביו שהיא אחות אמו חייב אחת על כולן או חייב על כל אחת ואחת מהו

- This is rather what it means to state: What [is the law] if one had intercourse with a sister who is at the same time his father's sister and his mother's siste is he liable to one sacrifice for all the trespasses, or to one [separate] sacrifice for each of them?

מי אמרינן

Do we arg that here are diverse prohibitions,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Consequently three offerings are to be brought.');">¹⁰</span>

הרי שמות מוחלקין או דלמא הרי אין גופין מוחלקין

or do we argue [from the fact] that the persons are not diverse?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' And therefore only one offering must be brought.');">¹¹</span>

אמרו לו

They replied: We have heard nothing about this, but we have heard that if one had intercourse together<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e. in one spell of unawareness.');">¹²</span>

לא שמענו אבל שמענו

with his five wives, while they were menstruant, whereby only one prohibition has been transgressed, he is liable to a sacrifice for each act of transgressing the law concerning menstruant women; and it seems to us that the case [you state] may be derived therefrom by an a fortiori conclusion [thus]: If one is liable to separate offerings in the case of intercourse together with his five menstruant wives, whereby only one prohibition has been transgressed, how much more should one be liable to separate offerings in the case of the sister who is at the same time his father's sister and his mother's sister, whereby three different prohibitions have been transgressed! But [against this conclusion] one may object: the case of the five menstruant women [is rightly more stringent] because several persons [are involved]?

הבא על ה' נשיו נדות בבת אחת שהוא שם אחד שחייב על כל אחת ואחת משום נדה וראינו שהדברים ק"ו

[The ruling<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' On R. Akiba's query.');">¹³</span>

ומה הבא על ה' נשיו נדות בבת אחת שהיא שם אחת חייב על כל אחת ואחת אחותו שהיא אחות אביו שהיא אחות אמו שהן ג' שמות אינו דין שיהא חייב על כל אחת ואחת

must] rather be derived from the Scriptural verse which says, He has uncovered the nakedness of his sister,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lev. XX, 17. The phrase is regarded as superfluous. V. also supra 2b.');">¹⁴</span>

איכא למיפרך

indicating that one is liable [to separate offerings] in the case of a sister who is at the same time his father's sister and his mother's sis Said R'Adda B'Ahaba: This<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Viz., that a sister should be at the same time the father's sister and the mother's sister.');">¹⁵</span>

מה לה' נדות שכן גופין מוחלקין

can arise in the case of a wicked man the son of a wicked man;<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e. this case can be construed only if the father of the offender had committed incest on two occasions, from which connections this woman as well as the man resulted.');">¹⁶</span>

אלא אמר קרא

[viz.] if man had connection with his mother who bore him two daughters, and then had connection with one of these [daughters] who bore him a son; this son<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Sc. the offender referred to in the MISHNAH:');">¹⁷</span>

(ויקרא כ, יז) ערות אחותו גלה לחייב על אחותו שהיא אחות אביו שהיא אחות אמו

then had connection with his mother's sister who is at the same time his sister and his father's sister.

אמר רב אדא בר אהבה

He is indeed a wicked man the son of a wicked man.

משכחת לה ברשיעא בר רשיעא שבא על אמו והוליד ב' בנות וחזר ובא על אחת מהן והוליד בן ובא בנו על אחות אמו שהיא אחותו שהיא אחות אביו דהוה ליה רשיעא בר רשיעא

Our Rabbis taught: If one had intercourse [inadvertently with one of the incestuous relations] and then again and then again,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Without being conscious in the meantime of his sin.');">¹⁸</span>

ת"ר

he is liable [to an offering] for each act.

בא עליה וחזר ובא עליה וחזר ובא עליה חייב על כל אחת ואחת דברי ר' אליעזר

These are the words of R'Eliezer.

וחכמים אומרים

But the Sages say, He is liable only once.

אינו חייב אלא אחת

The Sages, however, agree with R'Eliezer that if a man had intercourse at the same time<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e. under one spell of unawareness. Rashi omits: 'at the same time'.');">¹⁹</span>

ומודים חכמים לר' אליעזר בבא על ה' נשיו נדות בבת אחת שהוא חייב על כל אחת ואחת הואיל והוא גרם להן

with his five menstruant wives, that he is liable for each act, since he caused them liability to separate offerings.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e. the women who have also transgressed the same prohibition, have each to bring a separate sacrifice. A division has thus been established between the acts.');">²⁰</span>

אמר רבא לרב נחמן

Raba said to R'Nahman: Do we say [as an argument] since he caused them [liability to separate offerings]; surely it has been taught: 'If the man [committed several acts]<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Viz., with the same incestuous relation. Rashi mentions also the version that it refers to five different women.');">²¹</span>

מי אמרינן הואיל והוא גרם להן

in one spell of unawareness, and she in five separate spells of unawareness,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e. after each connection the woman became aware of her transgression.');">²²</span>

והתניא

he is liable to one offering only and she to one for each act'?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' We thus see that although the woman is liable to separate offerings, this is no reason why the man should be similarly liable.');">²³</span>

הוא בהעלם אחת והיא בה' העלמות הוא אינו חייב אלא אחת והיא חייבת על כל אחת ואחת

- Say rather: Since the persons<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e. in the case relating to the menstruant women different persons were involved and for this reason he is liable to five separate offerings.');">²⁴</span>

אלא אימא

were different.

הואיל וגופין מוחלקין

The query was raised: If one cut plants<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lit. 'reaps'.');">²⁵</span>

איבעיא להו

[on the Sabbath] and then cut again, what would be the law according to R'Eliezer?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Viz., in one spell of unawareness. Cutting plants or reaping corn is one of the principal acts of work prohibited on the Sabbath; Shab. VII, 2.');">²⁶</span>

קצר וקצר מה לי אמר רבי אליעזר

Is R'Eliezer's reason in the previous case because two acts were committed, and that was why he ruled that he was liable for each act, so here also since he committed two acts [he is liable for each act]; or perhaps R'Eliezer's reason in the previous case is because the acts could not be united,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The various sexual connections are of necessity separate performances.');">²⁷</span>

טעמא דר' אליעזר התם משום דהוא דעבד תרתין ואמטול להכי אמר

and therefore R'Eliezer said that he was liable for each act; in the instance, however, of a man cutting a plan of the size of a dried fig<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The legal minimum involving the desecration of the Sabbath is the size of a dried fig.');">²⁸</span>

חייב על כל אחת ואחת וה"נ דעבד תרתין

and then cutting again a plant of the size of a dried fig, both in one spell of unawareness, since the two dried fig-sizes could have been united in one act of cutting, he should be liable to one sacrifice only?

או דלמא טעמיה דרבי אליעזר התם משום דאי אפשר לו לערבן לביאות זו בזו אמטול להכי א"ר אליעזר

How is it? - Rabbah answered: R'Eliezer's reason is because two acts were performed, and here also two acts were performed.

חייב על כל אחת ואחת אבל קצר כגרוגרת וחזר וקצר כגרוגרת בהעלם אחת כיון דאפשר לו לערב שתי גרוגרות בבת אחת אינו חייב אלא אחת מאי

R'Joseph said: R'Eliezer's reason is because the acts could not be united, but whenever the acts could have been united one is liable to one offering only.

אמר רבה

Abaye raised an objection against Rabbah: [It has been taught:] R'Eliezer declares one culpable for derivatives<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' There are altogether thirty-nine principal acts of work prohibited on the Sabbath. Each of them is the head of a series of acts of work similar to it and derived from it - the derivatives. If a principal act has been performed together with some of its derivatives in one spell of unawareness, he is liable, according to R. Eliezer, for each act. From the fact that R. Eliezer did not go a step further in stating that even if the same principal act had been performed several times he is liable for each act, we derive that in the latter case he is only liable to one sacrifice.');">²⁹</span>

טעמא דר"א התם משום דעבד תרתי ה"נ הא עבד תרתי

even when performed together with their respective principal acts [of work].

ורב יוסף אמר טעמא דר' אליעזר התם דאי אפשר לו לערבן אבל אפשר לו לערבן אינו חייב אלא אחת

[From this we infer that if,] however, the same principal act was performed twice in one spell of unawareness, he is exempt.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' He is liable to bring only one offering and is exempt from the second.');">³⁰</span>

איתיביה אביי לרבה

Now, should you be right in saying that R'Eliezer's reason is because two acts were performed, why should he be exempt here! - Said Mar the son of Rabana: I and Rab Nihumi B'Zechariah have explained this: Here<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Viz., the statement of R. Eliezer that one is guilty for a derivative when performed with its principal act.');">³¹</span>

ר' אליעזר מחייב על ולדי מלאכות במקום אבות מלאכות

we deal with a branch of a vine which was overhanging a fig-tree, and he cut off both [branches] at one time.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' With one movement he cut off the vine branch, which he needed for fuel, as well as a twig of the fig-tree, which he wanted for its fruit. The first act is a derivative, since it was not done for the sake of its fruit; the second is a principal act. R. Eliezer holds that he is liable to two offerin even though one action only was performed. The inference made above, that R. Eliezer would not declare him guilty twice if the same principal act of work was performed twice on separate occasions but under one spell of unawareness, is no longer logical, for in this instance two different actions were done.');">³²</span>

הא אב ואב בבת אחת פטור ואי אמרת טעמא דרבי אליעזר משום דקעבד תרתי אמאי פטור

R'Eliezer therefore declares him culpable, since both the denominations<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e. the one was a principal act, the other its derivative.');">³³</span>

אמר מר בריה דרבנן אנא ורב נחומי בר זכריה תרגימנא

and the objects<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e. the trees.');">³⁴</span>

הכא במאי עסקינן בדלית המודלית על גבי תאינה וקצצן בבת אחת משום הכי מחייב רבי אליעזר הואיל ושמות מוחלקין וגופין מוחלקין

were different.

דכוותה קצר וקצר היכי משכחת לה דמיפטר

In what circumstances, then, would a man be exempt [according to R'Eliezer] when cutting a plant twice? - Only if he cut off two plants of a dried fig's size in one stroke.

כגון שקצר שתי גרוגרות בבת אחת אבל קצר כגרוגרת וחזר וקצר כגרוגרת חייב:

But if he cut off on plant of a dried fig's size and then another of a dried fig's size, he is indeed liable [to two offerings].<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' In accordance with Rabbah's interpretation of R. Eliezer's opinion.');">³⁵</span>

<big><strong>מתני׳</strong></big> ועוד שאל רבי עקיבא

<big><b>MISHNAH: </b></big>R'AKIBA FURTHER ASKED: IF A LIMB HANGS LOOSE FROM THE BODY OF A LIVING BEAST, WHAT IS THE LAW?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The question is whether it is unclean. The limb of a living animal completely detached from the body has the status of nebelah (see Glos.) and is unclean. In our instance it was not wholly detached from the body, but its connections were mainly severed.');">³⁶</span>

אבר המדולדלת בבהמה מהו

THEY REPLIED: WE HAVE HEARD NOTHING ABOUT THIS, BUT WE HAVE HEARD ABOUT A LIMB HANGING LOOSE FROM THE BODY OF A MAN THAT IT IS CLEAN.

אמרו לו

AND THUS

לא שמענו אבל שמענו

אבר המדולדלת באדם שהוא טהור וכך היו