Niddah 53

חומר שני ולדות שאני אומר

the restrictions of the two births;<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' If, for instance, the embryo aborted was a male, the placenta is presumed to contain the crushed embryo of a female, and the woman must, therefore, count fourteen unclean days (as for a female) and not only seven (as prescribed for a male). According to the Rabbis (who do not regard a bird or a beast as a valid birth) the restriction imposed would be to regard 'neither birth as valid and to deprive the woman in consequence of the advantage of the clean days prescribed for a woman after a childbirth. ');">¹</span>

שמא נמוח שפיר של שליא ונמוח שליא של שפיר

for it is assumed<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lit., 'for I say'. ');">²</span>

תיובתא

that the foetus of the placenta may have been crushed<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' So that the placenta belonged to that foetus and not to the one in existence. ');">³</span>

אמר רבה בר שילא אמר רב מתנה אמר שמואל

and that the placenta of the foetus<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' That is in existence. ');">⁴</span>

מעשה ותלו את השליא בולד עד עשרה ימים ולא אמרו תולין אלא בשליא הבאה אחר הולד

was also crushed.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' And lost. Hul. 77a. It is thus shown that a placenta is sometimes attached to the foetus. How then could Rabbi maintain (supra 26b ad fin.) that such a thing 'does not exist'? ');">⁵</span>

אמר רבה בר בר חנה אמר רבי יוחנן

This is indeed a refutation.

מעשה ותלו את השליא בולד עד כ"ג ימים

Rabbah b. Shila citing R. Mattena who had it from Samuel stated: It once happened that a placenta was attributed to an embryo as late as<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lit., 'until'. ');">⁶</span>

אמר ליה רב יוסף עד כ"ד אמרת לן

ten days [after the latter's birth].<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Despite the long interval between the birth of the embryo and the expulsion of the placenta no assumption was made that the placenta of the embryo in existence was lost and that the placenta in existence belonged to a second embryo that was crushed. ');">⁷</span>

אמר רב אחא בריה דרב עוירא א"ר יצחק

[The law, however, that it] is to be attributed [to the existing embryo] applies only<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lit., 'and they only said'. ');">⁸</span>

מעשה ונשתהה הולד אחר חבירו ל"ג יום

where the expulsion of the placenta followed the birth of the embryo.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' If, however, it preceded it the possibility must be taken into consideration that it belonged to another embryo that had been crushed; and consequently the restrictions applying to the two embryos must be imposed. ');">⁹</span>

א"ל רב יוסף

Rabbah b. Bar Hana citing R. Johanan stated: It once happened that a placenta was attributed to an embryo as late as<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lit., 'until'. ');">¹⁰</span>

ל"ד אמרת לן

twenty-three days [after the birth of the latter]. 'You once told us', said R. Joseph to him, 'as late as twenty-four days'. R. Aha son of 'Awira citing R. Johanan<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' So BaH. Cur. edd., 'R. Isaac'. ');">¹¹</span>

הניחא למאן דאמר יולדת לתשעה יולדת למקוטעין משכחת לה

stated: It once happened that the birth of an embryo was delayed for thirty-three days after that of its predecessor. 'You', said R. Joseph to him, 'have in fact told us thirty-four days.' [Such an incident may be explained] satisfactorily according to him who holds that a woman who bears at nine months does not necessarily complete the full number,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Of the nine months. Limekuta'in (from a rt. meaning 'to lop off'). ');">¹²</span>

אחד נגמרה צורתו לסוף שבעה ואחד נגמרה צורתו לתחלת תשעה

since in such circumstances it is possible that the features of one embryo were completed at the end<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Within a day or two. ');">¹³</span>

אלא למ"ד יולדת לתשעה אינה יולדת למקוטעין מאי איכא למימר

of seven months<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' In consequence of which it is viable. ');">¹⁴</span>

איפוך שמעתתא

and those of the other at the beginning<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Within a day or two. ');">¹³</span>

ל"ג לשליא כ"ג לולד

of the ninth month,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The eighth month consisting of twenty-nine or thirty days together with the odd days of the seventh and the ninth months (cf. prev. n. but one) making up the interval of thirty-three days. ');">¹⁵</span>

א"ר אבין בר רב אדא אמר רב מנחם איש כפר שערים

but according to him who maintains that a woman who bears at nine months does complete the full number,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Of the nine months. Limekuta'in (from a rt. meaning 'to lop off'). ');">¹²</span>

ואמרי לה בית שערים מעשה ונשתהה ולד אחד אחר חבירו ג' חדשים והרי הם יושבים לפנינו בבית המדרש

what can be said [in explanation of the incident]?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Apparently nothing whatever. If the first was born in the seventh month (even if on the last day) and the second in the ninth month the interval would not be one of thirty-three days but one of no less than two months. If they were both born in the seventh month the interval would inevitably be less than thirty-three days (since a Hebrew month never contains more than thirty days). If again, one was born in the seventh and the other in the eighth month the latter could not be viable, whereas the incident which speaks of a welad ('child') and not of nefel ('abortion') seems to refer to two viable children. ');">¹⁶</span>

ומאן נינהו

— Reverse the statements:<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Of R. Johanan. ');">¹⁷</span>

יהודה וחזקיה בני רבי חייא

Thirty-three days in the case of the placenta<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The first incident described supra. ');">¹⁸</span>

והא אמר מר

and twenty-three days in that of the embryo.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The second of the incidents supra. This is quite possible where both embryos were born in the seventh month, since all agree that a child may be viable even if the full number of seven months was not completed. ');">¹⁹</span>

אין אשה מתעברת וחוזרת ומתעברת

R. Abin b. R. Adda citing R. Menahem of Kefar She'arim or, as some say, Beth She'arim, stated: It once happened that a child was born three months later than its predecessor and lo, both sit before us in the schoolhouse. And who are they? — Judah and Hezekiah the sons of R. Hiyya. But did not a Master say that a woman in conception cannot conceive again?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lit., 'a woman does not conceive and conceive again'. How then was it possible for a child to be born three months after its predecessor. ');">²⁰</span>

אמר אביי

— Abaye replied: It was the same drop but it was divided in two sections; the features of one of these were completed at the beginning of the seventh month and those of the other were completed at the end of the ninth month.

טיפה אחת היתה ונתחלקה לשתים אחד נגמרה צורתו בתחלת ז' ואחד בסוף ט'

IF A PLACENTA IS WITHIN A HOUSE, THE HOUSE IS UNCLEAN. Our Rabbis taught: If a placenta is in a house, the house is unclean; not because a placenta is a child but because generally there can be no placenta with which there is no child; so R. Meir. R. Jose, R. Judah and R. Simeon regard [the house] as clean. 'Do you not agree', they said to R. Meir, 'that if it had been carried out in a bowl into an outer room it would be clean?' 'Indeed', he replied. 'But why?'<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Should then the first house be unclean. ');">²¹</span>

שליא בבית הבית טמא

'Because it<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Having been mashed in the water. ');">²²</span>

תנו רבנן

is no longer in existence'. 'As', they retorted, 'it is not in existence in the outer room so is it not in existence in the inner room'.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Since it was mashed in the placenta. ');">²³</span>

שליא בבית הבית טמא

'What was mashed once', he replied, 'is not like that which was mashed twice.'<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' 'There is no comparison between one presumption that the embryo was mashed and two such suppositions (that the placenta of one embryo and the embryo of another placenta were mashed)'. Jast. ');">²⁴</span>

לא שהשליא ולד אלא שאין שליא שאין ולד עמה דברי רבי מאיר

R. Papa once sat behind R. Bubi in the presence of R. Hamnuna and in the course of the session he observed: What is R. Simeon's reason?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Sc. granted that the embryo was mashed, does not a mashed corpse convey uncleanness? ');">²⁵</span>

רבי יוסי ורבי יהודה ורבי שמעון מטהרין

He is of the opinion that any uncleanness with which anything of a different kind of uncleanness has been mixed is neutralized. Said R. Papa to them: 'Is this also the reason of R. Judah and R. Jose?'<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Who are of the same opinion as R. Simeon supra. ');">²⁶</span>

אמרו לו לרבי מאיר

They laughed at him. 'Is not this obvious', they said, 'why should there be any difference?'<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' None whatever (cf. prev. n.). ');">²⁷</span>

אי אתה מודה שאם הוציאוהו בספל לבית החיצון שהוא טהור

— 'Even such a question',<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Which might cause one to be an object of ridicule. ');">²⁸</span>

אמר להן

said R. Papa, 'a man should submit to his Master<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' To make sure of his tradition. ');">²⁹</span>

אבל

and not be content with silence;<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' By relying on his own intelligence. ');">³⁰</span>

ולמה לפי שאינו

for it is said, If thou hast done foolishly<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Sc. asked what might appear to be a ridiculous question. ');">³¹</span>

אמרו לו

thou art<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' E.V., 'in'. ');">³²</span>

כשם שאינו בבית החיצון כך אינו בבית הפנימי

lifting up thyself;<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' One's knowledge is of the highest order and first hand. ');">³³</span>

אמר להן

but<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' E.V., 'or'. ');">³⁴</span>

אינו דומה נמוק פעם אחת לנמוק ב' פעמים

if thou hast planned devices,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' In seeking to escape possible ridicule. ');">³⁵</span>

יתיב רב פפא אחורי דרב ביבי קמיה דרב המנונא ויתיב וקאמר

lay thy hand upon thy mouth.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Prov. XXX, 32; he will not be able to give an authoritative answer when a question on the subject is addressed to him. ');">³⁶</span>

מאי טעמא דרבי שמעון קסבר כל טומאה שנתערב בה ממין אחר בטלה

R. Simeon<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' In his ruling supra that 'Any uncleanness with which anything of a different kind&nbsp;… has been mixed is neutralized'. ');">³⁷</span>

אמר להו רב פפא

follows the view he expressed elsewhere. For it was taught: If some earth fell into a ladleful of corpse-mould [the latter remains] unclean, but R. Simeon holds it to be clean. What is R. Simeon's reason? — Raba<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' So MS.M. and BaH. Cur. edd., 'Rabbah'. ');">³⁸</span>

היינו נמי טעמייהו דרבי יהודה ורבי יוסי

replied: 'I met the Rabbis of the schoolhouse while they were sitting at their studies and explaining that<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Though the earth is much less than the corpse-mould. ');">³⁹</span>

אחיכו עליה

it is impossible that [somewhere in the mixture] two particles of earth to one of the corpse-mould should not represent the larger portion, so that<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Since in that part of the mixture, at least, the corpse-mould is neutralized and loses its uncleanness. ');">⁴⁰</span>

מאי שנא

something is missing',<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' From the prescribed minimum of a ladleful. The whole mixture is consequently clean. ');">⁴¹</span>

פשיטא

and I said to them, 'On the contrary! It is impossible that [somewhere in the mixture] two particles of the corpse-mould should not represent a part greater than

אמר רב פפא

אפילו כי הא מילתא לימא איניש ולא נשתוק קמיה רביה משום שנאמר (משלי ל, לב) אם נבלת בהתנשא ואם זמות יד לפה

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מאי טעמא דרבי שמעון

אמר רבה אשכחתינהו לרבנן דבי רב דיתבי וקאמרי

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