Niddah 72

<big><strong>מתני׳</strong></big> המקשה נדה

<b><i>MISHNAH</i></b>. A WOMAN IN PROTRACTED LABOUR IS REGARDED AS A MENSTRUANT. IF HAVING BEEN IN LABOUR<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' And bleeding. ');">¹</span>

קשתה שלשה ימים בתוך י"א יום ושפתה מעת לעת וילדה הרי זו יולדת בזוב

FOR THREE DAYS OF THE ELEVEN DAYS,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' That intervene between the menstrual periods and during which a discharge of blood is ordinarily attributed to zibah. ');">²</span>

דברי רבי אליעזר

SHE WAS RELIEVED FROM HER PAINS FOR TWENTY-FOUR HOURS AND THEN GAVE BIRTH, SHE IS REGARDED AS HAVING GIVEN BIRTH IN A <i>ZIBAH</i>;<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' As the pains ceased before birth it is evident that the previous discharge (cf. prev. n. but one) was not due to the labour but to zibah. Had the pains continued until birth all the previous bleeding would have been attributed to that of the labour which is Pentateuchally clean. ');">³</span>

רבי יהושע אומר

SO R. ELIEZER. R. JOSHUA RULED: THE RELIEF FROM PAIN<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' As result of which the bleeding must be regarded as zibah and is not to be attributed to the labour. ');">⁴</span>

לילה ויום כלילי שבת ויומו

MUST HAVE CONTINUED FOR A NIGHT AND A DAY,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Not merely for twenty-four hours that began and ended at any time of the day or the night. ');">⁵</span>

ששפתה מן הצער ולא מן הדם

AS THE NIGHT AND THE DAY OF THE SABBATH.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Which begins at sunset of Friday and terminates at that of Saturday. ');">⁶</span>

כמה היא קישויה

THE RELIEF [SPOKEN OF IS ONE] FROM PAIN, NOT FROM BLEEDING.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., even if she was bleeding, the relief from pain alone suffices to subject her to the uncleanness of zibah. ');">⁷</span>

ר' מאיר אומר

HOW LONG MAY PROTRACTED LABOUR CONTINUE?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' In respect of exempting the woman from zibah (cf. supra p. 250. n. 8) even if she bled. ');">⁸</span>

אפילו ארבעים וחמשים יום

R. MEIR RULED: 'EVEN FORTY OR FIFTY DAYS.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Prior to childbirth; provided only that there was no period of relief from pain (as defined supra) before birth. ');">⁹</span>

רבי יהודה אומר

R. JUDAH RULED: HER [NINTH] MONTH SUFFICES FOR HER.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Sc. only blood discharged during that month may be attributed to labour. Should the discharge begin during the 'eleven days' of the previous month and continue for three days she is deemed a zabah (on account of the discharge on these three days) even though the bleeding continued throughout the ninth month also. ');">¹⁰</span>

דיה חדשה

R. JOSE AND R. SIMEON RULED: PROTRACTED LABOUR CANNOT CONTINUE<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' In respect of exempting the woman from zibah (cf. supra p. 250. n. 8) even if she bled. ');">⁸</span>

ר' יוסי ור' שמעון אומרים

FOR MORE THAN TWO WEEKS.

אין קישוי יותר משתי שבתות

<b><i>GEMARA</i></b>. Is then<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Since our Mishnah seems to lay down a general rule. ');">¹¹</span>

<big><strong>גמ׳</strong></big> אטו כל המקשה נדה היא

every woman IN PROTRACTED LABOUR REGARDED AS A MENSTRUANT?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' But this, surely, is absurd. During the eleven days of zibah the woman could not be regarded as a MENSTRUANT but as a zabah. ');">¹²</span>

אמר רב

— Rab replied: She<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Even if the discharge in the course of her labour occurred during the eleven days of zibah. ');">¹³</span>

נדה ליומא

is deemed to be a menstruant for one day.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' And on undergoing immersion in the evening she attains to cleanness. A woman who was not in labour, if she had such a discharge, must allow another day (free from any discharge) to pass before she can attain to cleanness. ');">¹⁴</span>

ושמואל אמר

Samuel, however, ruled: The possibility must be taken into consideration<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' In accordance with Rabbinic law, though Pentateuchally this is not necessary. ');">¹⁵</span>

חיישינן שמא תשפה

that she might be relieved from her pain,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Before childbirth. As a result it would be evident that the discharge was one of zibah and the man cohabiting with the woman would be subject to kareth in Pentateuchal law. The woman, like any other who observed a discharge during the eleven days of zibah, must consequently remain unclean until another day, that was free from any further discharge, had passed. ');">¹⁶</span>

ור' יצחק אמר

while R. Isaac ruled: A discharge on the part of a woman in labour<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Even during the 'eleven days' of zibah. ');">¹⁷</span>

המקשה אינה כלום

is of no consequence.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Sc. it is regarded as the blood of labour and the woman is deemed to be clean even on the same day. ');">¹⁸</span>

והקתני המקשה נדה

But was it not stated, A WOMAN IN PROTRACTED LABOUR IS REGARDED AS A MENSTRUANT? — Raba replied: During the days of her menstruation<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Sc. the period during which a discharge is deemed to be menstrual. ');">¹⁹</span>

אמר רבא

SHE<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Though in labour. ');">²⁰</span>

בימי נדה נדה בימי זיבה טהורה

IS DEEMED TO BE A MENSTRUANT,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The reason is given infra. ');">²¹</span>

והתניא המקשה בימי נדה נדה בימי זיבה טהורה

but during the days of <i>zibah</i><span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Cf. prev. n. but one mut. mut. ');">²²</span>

כיצד קשתה יום אחד ושפתה שנים או שקשתה שנים ושפתה יום אחד או ששפתה וקשתה וחזרה ושפתה הרי זו יולדת בזוב

she is clean. And so it was also taught: If a woman is in protracted labour during the days of her menstruation<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Sc. the period during which a discharge is deemed to be menstrual. ');">¹⁹</span>

אבל שפתה יום אחד וקשתה שנים או ששפתה שנים וקשתה יום אחד או שקשתה ושפתה וחזרה וקשתה אין זו יולדת בזוב

she is deemed to be a menstruant,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Though in labour. ');">²⁰</span>

כללו של דבר

but if this occurred during the days of her <i>zibah</i><span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Cf. prev. n. but one mut. mut. ');">²²</span>

קושי סמוך ללידה אין זו יולדת בזוב שופי סמוך ללידה הרי זו יולדת בזוב

she is clean. In what circumstances? If she was in labour for one day and had relief from pains for two days, or if she was in labour for two days and had relief from pain for one day,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' While still bleeding. ');">²³</span>

חנניא בן אחי ר' יהושע אומר

or if she was relieved from pains and then was again in labour and then was again relieved from pain,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' While still bleeding. ');">²³</span>

כל שחל קישויה בשלישי שלה אפילו כל היום כולו בשופי אין זו יולדת בזוב

such a woman is regarded as having given birth in <i>zibah</i>; but if she was relieved from pain for one day and then was in labour for two days, or if she was relieved for two days and then was in labour for one day, or if she was in labour and then was relieved and then was again in labour, such a woman is not regarded as having given birth in <i>zibah</i>; the general rule being that where the pains of labour immediately precede<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lit., 'near'. ');">²⁴</span>

כללו של דבר לאתויי מאי

birth the woman is not regarded as having given birth in <i>zibah</i>, but if release from pain immediately precedes<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lit., 'near'. ');">²⁴</span>

לאתויי דחנניא

birth the woman<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Where her discharge continued for three days. ');">²⁵</span>

מה"מ

must be regarded as having given birth in <i>zibah</i>.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The release from pain serving as proof that the previous discharge was not due to childbirth but to zibah. ');">²⁶</span>

דת"ר

Hananiah the son of R. Joshua's brother ruled: Provided her pains of labour were experienced<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Even if only for a short while. ');">²⁷</span>

דמה דמה מחמת עצמה ולא מחמת ולד

on her third day.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Ordinarily it is the discharge on the third day that causes a woman to be a confirmed or major zabah. A discharge on not more than one or two days only causes her to be a minor zabah. ');">²⁸</span>

אתה אומר מחמת ולד או אינו אלא מחמת אונס

even though she had relief during the rest of that day, she<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Since on the third day her relief did not extend over the whole night and the whole day. ');">²⁹</span>

כשהוא אומר (ויקרא טו, כה) ואשה כי יזוב זוב דמה הרי אונס אמור הא מה אני מקיים דמה

is not regarded as having given birth in <i>zibah</i>. What does the expression 'The general rule' include? — It includes the ruling of Hananiah.

דמה מחמת עצמה ולא מחמת ולד

Whence is this<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' That the blood of labour is clean. ');">³⁰</span>

ומה ראית לטהר את הולד ולטמא באונס

deduced? — Our<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lit., 'for our'. ');">³¹</span>

מטהר אני בולד שיש טהרה אחריו ומטמא אני באונס שאין טהרה אחריו

Rabbis taught: Her blood<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lev. XV, 25. ');">³²</span>

אדרבה מטהר אני באונס שכן אונס בזב טהור

refers to blood that is normally discharged,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lit., 'on account of herself'. ');">³³</span>

השתא מיהא באשה קיימינן ואונס באשה לא אשכחן

but not to such as is due to childbirth.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The latter being clean. ');">³⁴</span>

ואיבעית אימא

You say. '[Not to such as is] due to childbirth'; is it not possible that only that blood is excluded<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lit., 'or it is not but'. ');">³⁵</span>

מאי דעתיך לטהורי באונס ולטמויי בולד

which is due to an accident?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The latter being clean. ');">³⁴</span>

אין לך אונס גדול מזה

As it was said, And if a woman have an issue of her blood,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lev. XV, 25. ');">³⁶</span>

אי הכי נדה נמי נימא זובה זובה מחמת עצמה ולא מחמת ולד

a discharge that is due to an accident is included;<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Since the text draws no distinctions. ');">³⁷</span>

אתה אומר ולד או אינו אלא אונס

to what then could one apply the limitation of 'her blood'?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lev. XV, 25. ');">³⁶</span>

כשהוא אומר (ויקרא טו, יט) ואשה כי תהיה זבה הרי אונס אמור הא מה אני מקיים זובה זובה מחמת עצמה ולא מחמת ולד

Obviously to this: "Her blood" refers to blood that is normally discharged but not to such as is due to childbirth'. But<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Seeing that the text does not specifically mention either the blood of childbirth or that which is due to an accident. ');">³⁸</span>

אמר ר"ל

what reason do you see for holding the blood of childbirth clean and that which is due to an accident unclean? I hold that which is due to childbirth clean since it is followed by cleanness,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The period of unclean blood after a childbirth (seven days for a male and fourteen days for a female) is followed by one of clean blood (thirty-three days for a male and sixty-six days for a female). ');">³⁹</span>

אמר קרא תשב יש לך ישיבה אחרת שהיא כזו ואיזו זו זו קושי בימי זיבה

but hold that which is due to an accident unclean since it is not followed by cleanness. On the contrary! That which is due to an accident should be held clean since a discharge from a <i>zab</i> that is due to an accident is clean? — Now at all events we are dealing with the case of a woman, and we do not find that in the case of a woman blood due to an accident is ever clean. And if you prefer I might reply: What opinion do you hold? Is it to regard a discharge that is due to an accident clean and one that is due to childbirth unclean? Surely you cannot point to any occurrence that is more in the nature of an accident<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Sc. that is not dependent on the woman's will. ');">⁴⁰</span>

ואימא

than this.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' If then blood that is due to an accident (cf. prev. n.) is clean that which is due to childbirth must equally be clean. ');">⁴¹</span>

זו קושי בימי נדה

If so,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' If the deduction just discussed is tenable. ');">⁴²</span>

אלא אמר אבוה דשמואל

why should it not be said in the case of a menstruant also: Her issue<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lev. XV, 19. in the section dealing with a menstruant. ');">⁴³</span>

אמר קרא (ויקרא יב, ה) וטמאה שבועים כנדתה ולא כזיבתה מכלל דזיבתה טהור ואיזו זו זו קושי בימי זיבה

refers to an issue that is normally discharged but not to such as is due to childbirth?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' But if that exposition is upheld how could it be said supra that blood of labour discharged during the menstrual period is unclean? ');">⁴⁴</span>

והשתא דכתיב וטמאה שבועים כנדתה דמה למה לי

You say, '[not to such as is due to] childbirth'; is it not possible that only that blood is excluded<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The latter being clean. ');">³⁴</span>

אי לאו דמה הוה אמינא כנדתה ולא כזיבתה ואפילו בשופי קמ"ל

which is due to an accident?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The latter being clean. ');">³⁴</span>

שילא בר אבינא עבד עובדא כוותיה דרב

As it was said, And if a woman have an issue,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lev. XV, 19. in the section dealing with a menstruant. ');">⁴³</span>

כי קא נח נפשיה דרב א"ל לרב אסי

a discharge that is due to an accident is included;<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Since the text draws no distinctions. ');">⁴⁵</span>

זיל צנעיה ואי לא ציית גרייה

to what then could one apply the limitation of 'her issue'?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lev. XV, 19, in the section dealing with a menstruant. ');">⁴⁶</span>

הוא סבר גדייה א"ל

Obviously to this: 'Her issue' refers to an issue that is normally discharged but not to such as is due to childbirth!<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' V. p. 253. n. 11. ');">⁴⁷</span>

בתר דנח נפשיה דרב א"ל

— Resh Lakish answered: Scripture said, She shall continue<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lev. XII, 4, referring to clean blood. ');">⁴⁸</span>

הדר בך

which implies:<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Since the expression could well have been omitted without destroying the general meaning of the text. ');">⁴⁹</span>

דהדר ביה רב

You have another continuation which is of the same nature as this one;<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Sc. in both cases the discharge is clean. ');">⁵⁰</span>

א"ל

and which is it?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., how could zibah be clean? ');">⁵¹</span>

אם איתא דהדר ביה לדידי הוה אמר לי

It is that of protracted labour during the days of her <i>zibah</i>. Might it not be suggested that this refers to protracted labour during the days of her menstruation? — Rather, said Samuel's father, Scripture said, Then she shall be unclean two weeks, as in her menstruation,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Since the expression could well have been omitted without destroying the general meaning of the text. ');">⁴⁹</span>

לא ציית

[implying] but not 'as in her zibah', from which it may be inferred that her <i>zibah</i> is clean; and which is it?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., how could zibah be clean? ');">⁵¹</span>

גדייה

It is that of protracted labour during the days of her <i>zibah</i>. Now, however, that it is written, Then she shall be unclean two weeks as in her menstruation,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lev. XII, 5. E.V., 'as in her impurity'. ');">⁵²</span>

א"ל

what need was there for the expression of 'her blood'?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' From which the same deductions, that a discharge of blood that was due to childbirth is clean, was made supra. ');">⁵³</span>

ולא מסתפי מר מדליקתא

— If not for the expression 'her blood' it might have been presumed that the deduction 'as in her menstration'<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lev. XII, 5. E.V., 'as in her impurity'. ');">⁵²</span>

א"ל

and not 'as in her zibah' implies that the discharge is clean even where the woman was relieved from pain,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Before the birth of the child. ');">⁵⁴</span>

אנא איסי בן יהודה דהוא איסי בן גור אריה דהוא איסי בן גמליאל דהוא איסי בן מהללאל אסיתא דנחשא דלא שליט ביה רקבא

hence we were informed<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' By the additional expression of 'her blood'. ');">⁵⁵</span>

א"ל

[that the discharge is clean only where it is due to childbirth].<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Relief from pain is an indication that the previous discharge was not due to childbirth and is therefore, unclean. ');">⁵⁶</span>

ואנא שילא בר אבינא בוכנא דפרזלא דמתבר אסיתא דנחשא

Shila b. Abina gave a practical decision in agreement with the view of Rab.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' That a woman who was in labour during the eleven days of zibah and discharged some blood is unclean for that day (v. supra). ');">⁵⁷</span>

חלש רב אסי

When Rab's soul was about to depart to its eternal rest he<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Having changed his former view. ');">⁵⁸</span>

עיילוה בחמימי אפקוה מקרירי עיילוה בקרירי אפקוה מחמימי נח נפשיה דרב אסי

said to R. Assi, 'Go and restrain him,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' From acting in the same manner. ');">⁵⁹</span> and if he does not listen to you try to convince him'.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Garyeh, lit., 'attract him'. ');">⁶⁰</span> The other thought that he was told, 'put him under the ban'.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Gadyeh, lit., 'cut him off'. ');">⁶¹</span> After Rab's soul came to its eternal rest he<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' R. Assi. ');">⁶²</span> said to him,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Shila. ');">⁶³</span> 'Retract, for Rab has retracted'. 'If', the other retorted, 'he had retracted he would have told me so'.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' He was a disciple of Rab. ');">⁶⁴</span> As he<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Shila. ');">⁶³</span> did not listen to him' the latter put him under the ban. 'Is not the Master', the other<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Shila. ');">⁶³</span> asked him, 'afraid of the fire?'<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Sc. that he would suffer for his high handed action. ');">⁶⁵</span> 'I', the former replied, 'am Issi b. Judah<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' [He probably meant that his name Assi bore resemblance to that of Assi b. Judah who bore a variety of names, v. Pes., Sonc. ed., p. 585. n. 6.]. ');">⁶⁶</span> who is Issi b. Gur-aryeh<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lit., 'lion's whelp' (cf. Gen. XLIX. 9). ');">⁶⁷</span> who is Issi b. Gamaliel who is Issi b. Mahalalel, a brazen mortar<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Assitha, play upon 'Assi' or 'Issi'. ');">⁶⁸</span> over which rust has no power'. 'And I', the other retorted, 'am Shila b. Abina, an iron pestle that breaks the brazen mortar Thereupon R. Assi fell ill and they had to put him in hot [blankets] to relieve him from chills and in cold [compresses] to relieve him from heat,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Aliter: They got him hot to relieve him from chills; they got him cold to relieve him from fever (Jast.). ');">⁶⁹</span> and his soul departed to its eternal rest.