Niddah 83

Chapter 83

א וכי תימא דילמא אשתייר אי הכי חיישינן שמא נשתייר מבעי ליה
1 And should you reply: It is possible that<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Even after the ejection. ');"><sup>1</sup></span> some remained<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' And that the uncleanness of which Raba spoke is due to this possibility. ');"><sup>2</sup></span>
ב אלא לרבא נמי שהטבילוה במטה ולא קשיא כאן במתהפכת כאן בשאינה מתהפכת
2 [the objection would arise]: If so, should not the expression used have been:<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Instead of the statement, 'it is impossible that she should not eject'. ');"><sup>3</sup></span>
ג ורבא אקרא קאי והכי קאמר כי כתב רחמנא ורחצו במים וטמאו עד הערב בשאינה מתהפכת אבל במתהפכת כל שלשה ימים אסורה לאכול בתרומה שאי אפשר לה שלא תפלוט
3 We take into consideration the possibility that some might have remained? — The fact, however, is that according to Raba also this is a case where the woman was immersed with her bed, but there is no difficulty since one ruling<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Raba's. ');"><sup>4</sup></span> deals with a woman who<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' After the immersion. ');"><sup>5</sup></span>
ד בעא מיניה רב שמואל בר ביסנא מאביי פולטת שכבת זרע רואה הויא או נוגעת הויא
4 turned over<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Hence 'it is impossible that she etc.'. ');"><sup>6</sup></span> while the other<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' R. Simeon's. ');"><sup>7</sup></span>
ה נפקא מינה לסתור ולטמא במשהו ולטמא בפנים כבחוץ
5 deals with one who<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' After the immersion. ');"><sup>5</sup></span> did not turn over;<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Her uncleanness, therefore, terminates at evening. ');"><sup>8</sup></span>
ו מה נפשך אי שמיע ליה מתניתין לרבנן רואה הויא ולר' שמעון נוגעת הויא
6 and Raba<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' In his ruling. ');"><sup>9</sup></span>
ז ואי לא שמיע ליה מתניתין מסתברא נוגעת הויא
7 interpreted the Scriptural text in this manner:<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lit., 'took his stand on the text and thus he said'. ');"><sup>10</sup></span>
ח לעולם שמיע ליה מתניתין ואליבא דרבנן לא קמיבעיא ליה כי קא מיבעיא ליה אליבא דר"ש
8 When Scripture wrote, They shall both bathe themselves in water and be unclean until the even,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lev. XV, 18. ');"><sup>11</sup></span>
ט ולטמא בפנים כבחוץ לא קמיבעיא ליה כי קמיבעיא ליה לסתור ולטמא בכל שהוא מאי
9 it referred to a woman who did not turn over but one who did turn over is forbidden to eat <i>terumah</i> for three days since it is impossible that she should not eject some semen during this time.
י כי קאמר רבי שמעון דיה כבועלה הני מילי לטמויי בפנים כבחוץ אבל לסתור ולטמא בכל שהוא רואה הויא או דילמא לא שנא
10 R. Samuel b. Bisna enquired of Abaye: 'Is a woman ejecting semen<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' After she had undergone ritual immersion and was freed thereby from the uncleanness of intercourse to which she was subject (as stated supra) under a specific Scriptural ordinance. ');"><sup>12</sup></span>
יא איכא דאמרי לעולם לא שמיע ליה מתניתא והכי קמיבעיא ליה מדאחמיר רחמנא אבעלי קריין בסיני רואה הויא
11 regarded as observing a discharge or as coming in contact with one?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Externally. Internal contact, being within a concealed region, is (as stated supra 41b) of no consequence. ');"><sup>13</sup></span> The practical issue<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Between uncleanness through (a) observation and (b) contact. ');"><sup>14</sup></span>
יב או דילמא לא גמרינן מסיני דחדוש הוא דהא זבין ומצורעים דחמירי ולא אחמיר בהו רחמנא
12 is the question of rendering<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' During the eleven days of zibah. ');"><sup>15</sup></span> any previous counting<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Of the prescribed seven days. ');"><sup>16</sup></span>
יג א"ל רואה הויא אתא שייליה לרבא א"ל רואה הויא אתא לקמיה דרב יוסף א"ל רואה הויא הדר אתא לקמיה דאביי א"ל כולכו ברוקא חדא תפיתו
13 void,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Which is the case with an observation but not with contact. ');"><sup>17</sup></span> and of conveying uncleanness by means of the smallest quantity<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Which is the case with an observation but not with contact. ');"><sup>17</sup></span> and of conveying uncleanness internally as well as externally'.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Which is the case with an observation but not with contact. ');"><sup>17</sup></span> But what is the question?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lit., 'what is your desire?' ');"><sup>18</sup></span> If he<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' R. Samuel who raised the question. ');"><sup>19</sup></span> heard of the Baraithas [he should have known that] according to the Rabbis she is regarded as observing a discharge while according to R. Simeon she is regarded as coming in contact with one; and if he<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' R. Samuel who raised the question. ');"><sup>19</sup></span> did not hear of the Baraitha,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Supra 41b, where the Rabbis ruled that the ejection of semen conveys uncleanness internally as well as externally, while R. Simeon ruled that it is enough for the woman to be as unclean as the man who had intercourse with her. For the reading 'Baraitha' cf. Bomb. ed. Cur. edd. 'our Mishnah'. ');"><sup>20</sup></span> is it not logical that<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Since the discharge does not originate from the woman's own body. ');"><sup>21</sup></span>
יד אמר ליה שפיר אמרי לך עד כאן לא קאמר ר"ש דיה כבועלה אלא לטמא בפנים כבחוץ אבל לסתור ולטמא בכל שהוא רואה הויא
14 she should be regarded as coming in contact with one?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Of course it is. Why then did R. Samuel raise the question at all? ');"><sup>22</sup></span> — Indeed he may well have heard of the Baraitha and, as far as the Rabbis are concerned, he had no question at all;<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Since the Rabbis ruled that uncleanness is conveyed internally as well as externally it is obvious that the woman is regarded as one observing a discharge, and is, therefore, subject all the more to the other restrictions. ');"><sup>23</sup></span>
טו ת"ר הנדה והזבה והשומרת יום כנגד יום והיולדת כולן מטמאות בפנים כבחוץ
15 what he did ask concerned only the view of R. Simeon. Furthermore, he had no question<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Even according to R. Simeon. ');"><sup>24</sup></span> as to whether uncleanness is conveyed internally as externally;<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Well knowing that no internal uncleanness is conveyed (cf. supra n. 6). ');"><sup>25</sup></span>
טז בשלמא כולהו לחיי אלא יולדת אי בימי נדה נדה אי בימי זיבה זיבה
16 what he did ask was whether any previous counting is rendered void and whether uncleanness is conveyed by means of the smallest quantity. When [he asked in effect] R. Simeon ruled that 'it is enough that she be subject to the same stringency of uncleanness as the man who had intercourse with her' he meant it only in respect of conveying uncleanness internally as externally<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Sc. as the man is free from internal uncleanness so is she. ');"><sup>26</sup></span>
יז לא צריכא שירדה לטבול מטומאה לטהרה
17 but as regards rendering any previous counting void and conveying uncleanness by means of the smallest quantity she is regarded as one observing a discharge, or is it possible that<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Since he regarded her only as one coming in contact with a discharge. ');"><sup>27</sup></span>
יח וכי הא דאמר רבי זירא א"ר חייא בר אשי אמר רב יולדת שירדה לטבול מטומאה לטהרה ונעקר ממנה דם בירידה טמאה בעלייה טהורה
18 there is no difference?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' And she is in all respects to be treated as such. ');"><sup>28</sup></span> There are others who read: Indeed he<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' R. Samuel who raised the question. ');"><sup>19</sup></span>
יט א"ל רבי ירמיה לר' זירא בירידה אמאי טמאה טומאה בלועה היא א"ל זיל שייליה לרבי אבין דאסברית ניהליה וכרכיש לי ברישיה בי מדרשא
19 may never have heard of the Baraitha,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' V. supra p. 288 n. 5. ');"><sup>29</sup></span> but<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' In reply to the objection, 'Is it not logical that she should be regarded as coming in contact with one?' ');"><sup>30</sup></span> it is this that he asked in effect: Since the All Merciful has considered it proper to impose a restriction<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Not to approach the mountain. ');"><sup>31</sup></span> at Sinai on those who emitted semen,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' V. Ex. XIX, 15. 'Come not near a woman'. This shows that the emission of semen is subject to a higher degree of uncleanness than contact with a dead creeping thing, which did not subject a person to the restriction. ');"><sup>32</sup></span> she must be regarded as one who observed a discharge, or is it possible that no inference may be drawn from Sinai, since it was placed under an anomalous law, seeing that zabs and lepers who are elsewhere subject to major restrictions were not subjected by the All Merciful to that restriction?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Not to approach the mountain. ');"><sup>31</sup></span>
כ אזל שייליה א"ל עשאוה כנבלת עוף טהור שמטמאה בגדים בבית הבליעה מי דמי
20 — The other<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Abaye. ');"><sup>33</sup></span> replied: She is regarded as one who has observed a discharge. He<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' R. Samuel b. Bisna. ');"><sup>34</sup></span> then came to Raba<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Var. lec. Rabbah (BaH.). ');"><sup>35</sup></span> and put the question to him. The latter replied: She is regarded as one who observed a discharge. He thereupon came to R. Joseph who also told him: She is regarded as one who observed a discharge. He<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' R. Samuel b. Bisna. ');"><sup>34</sup></span> then returned to Abaye and said to him: 'You all spit the same thing',<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lit., 'spittle', i.e., your opinions are all traceable to the same source. ');"><sup>36</sup></span> 'We', the other replied, 'only gave you the right answer. For when R. Simeon ruled that "it is enough that she be subject to the same stringency of uncleanness as the man who had intercourse with her" it was only in respect of conveying uncleanness internally as externally,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Sc. as the man is free from internal uncleanness so is she. ');"><sup>37</sup></span> but in respect of rendering any previous counting void and in respect of conveying uncleanness by means of the smallest quantity she is regarded as one who observed a discharge.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Since in the case of the man also (to whose degree of uncleanness hers is compared) any previous counting is rendered void and the smallest quantity conveys uncleanness. ');"><sup>38</sup></span> Our Rabbis taught: A menstruant,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' After one observation during her menstrual period. ');"><sup>39</sup></span> a zabah,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Cf. prev. n. mut. mut. If this single observation is followed by two other observations the woman is a confirmed zabah and must count seven days before she attains to cleanness, but if no other observation followed she only awaits one clean day for the unclean one. ');"><sup>40</sup></span> one who awaits a day for a day<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Cf. prev. n. mut. mut. If this single observation is followed by two other observations the woman is a confirmed zabah and must count seven days before she attains to cleanness, but if no other observation followed she only awaits one clean day for the unclean one. ');"><sup>40</sup></span> and a woman after childbirth<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' This is explained presently. ');"><sup>41</sup></span> contract uncleanness internally<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Sc. as soon as the discharge made its way into the vagina. ');"><sup>42</sup></span> as well as externally. Now, the enumeration of three of these cases<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lit., '(almost) all of them'. ');"><sup>43</sup></span> may well be justified, but how is one to explain the mention of the woman after childbirth? If the birth<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' And the discharge observed. ');"><sup>44</sup></span> occurred during her menstruation period she is a menstruant,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Who was already specifically enumerated among the first three cases. ');"><sup>45</sup></span> and if it occurred during her <i>zibah</i> period she is a zabah?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Who was already specifically enumerated among the first three cases. ');"><sup>45</sup></span> — The mention<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Of the woman after childbirth. ');"><sup>46</sup></span> was necessary only in the case of one who went down<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' After the seven or fourteen days of uncleanness following the birth of a male and a female respectively. ');"><sup>47</sup></span> to perform ritual immersion in order to pass out thereby from the period of uncleanness to that of cleanness;<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The period of thirty-three clean days after the seven, and the sixty-six clean days after the fourteen (cf. prev. n.). ');"><sup>48</sup></span> and this<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The ruling that a woman in such circumstances contracts uncleanness internally. ');"><sup>49</sup></span> is in agreement with a ruling given by R. Zera citing R. Hiyya b. Ashi who had it from Rab: If a woman after childbirth went down<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' After the seven or fourteen days of uncleanness following the birth of a male and a female respectively. ');"><sup>47</sup></span> to perform ritual immersion in order to pass out thereby from her period of uncleanness to that of cleanness,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The period of thirty-three clean days after the seven, and the sixty-six clean days after the fourteen (cf. prev. n.). ');"><sup>48</sup></span> and some blood was detached from her body,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' In the vagina, where it remained for a day or two. ');"><sup>50</sup></span> while she was going down,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Since the mere passing of the seven or fourteen days does not restore the woman to cleanness unless immersion had been performed (cf. supra 35b). When the unclean blood (cf. next n.) is completely discharged from the body a second immersion is required since no cleanness had been attained by the first. ');"><sup>51</sup></span> she is unclean,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' While the blood is retained in the vagina, on account of her carriage of, or contact with the detached blood in it. ');"><sup>52</sup></span> but if it occurred while she was going up, she is clean.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' When, owing to the immersion, her clean period had already begun and the blood is clean. It has thus been shown that the Baraitha under discussion is in agreement with the first case, 'while she was going down, she is unclean' of R. Zera. ');"><sup>53</sup></span> Said R. Jeremiah to R. Zera: Why should she be unclean if this occurred 'while she was going down'? Is not the blood merely an absorbed uncleanness?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Which (cf. Hul. 71a) cannot convey uncleanness either through contact or through carriage. Granted that a menstrual, or a zibah discharge causes a woman's uncleanness even while it is still absorbed in the vagina (as deduced supra from a Scriptural text), how can this blood, which is neither menstrual nor one of zibah and which (if it had come in external contact with the woman) could only have caused one day's uncleanness convey to the woman any uncleanness at all while still absorbed? ');"><sup>54</sup></span> — Go, the other replied, and ask it of R. Abin to whom I have explained the point at the schoolhouse and who nodded to me with his head.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' As a mark of approval. ');"><sup>55</sup></span> He went and asked him [the question], and the latter replied: This was treated like the carcass of a clean bird which<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Though it conveys no uncleanness to the garments of the man who comes in contact with it. ');"><sup>56</sup></span> conveys uncleanness to garments<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Those of the man who eats of it. ');"><sup>57</sup></span> while it is still passing through the oesophagus.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' An 'absorbed uncleanness'. ');"><sup>58</sup></span> But are the two cases at all similar