Shabbat 165

ורבי עקיבא למאי הלכתא איתקש לנדה למשא לוקשיה לנבלה אין הכי נמי אלא מה נדה אינה לאברין אף ע"ז אינה לאברין אלא הא דבעי רב חמא בר גוריא ע"ז ישנה לאברים או אינה לאברים תיפשוט ליה מהא בין לרבנן בין לרבי עקיבא דאינה לאברים רב חמא בר גוריא כרבה מתני ובעי לה אליבא דרבי עקיבא

Now according to R. Akiba, in respect of what law is it likened to a <i>niddah</i>? [only] in respect of carriage! Then let it be likened to <i>nebelah</i>? — That indeed is so, but [the analogy with <i>niddah</i>, rather, teaches: just as <i>niddah</i> is not a source of contamination] through her [separate] limbs, so is an idol not [a source of contamination] through its limbs. Then when R. Hama b. Guria asked: 'Does the law of an idol operate in respect of its limbs or not?'solve it for him from this, according to both the Rabbis and R. Akiba, that it does not operate in respect of its limbs? — R. Hama b. Guria learns this as Rabbah, and asked it on R. Akiba's view. An objection is raised: An idol is like a [creeping thing] sherez and its service utensils are like a sherez; R. Akiba maintained: An idol is like a <i>niddah</i>, and its service utensils are like a sherez. Now, according to R. Eleazar, it is well; but on Rabbah's view, it is a difficulty? — Rabbah answers you: Is it stronger than the Mishnah, which states, 'The stones, timber and earth thereof defile like a sherez,' and we explained, What is meant by 'like a sherez?' That it does not defile through a cavity-closing stone: here too it means that it does not defile through a cavity-closing stone.

מיתיבי ע"ז כשרץ ומשמשיה כשרץ רבי עקיבא אומר ע"ז כנדה ומשמשיה כשרץ בשלמא לרבי אלעזר ניחא אלא לרבה קשיא אמר לך רבה מי אלימא ממתני' דקתני עציו ואבניו ועפריו מטמאין כשרץ ואוקימנא מאי כשרץ דלא מטמא באבן מסמא ה"נ דלא מטמא באבן מסמא

An objection is raised: A heathen man or woman, an idol and its service utensils, they themselves [defile] but not their motion [hesset];<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Hesset is the technical term for uncleanness induced by the motion or shaking caused by a gonorrhoeist (zab). E.g., if he moves a bench upon which a clean person is sitting, even without actually touching it, the latter becomes unclean. The Rabbis enacted that heathens defile in the same way as a zab. But it is now assumed that hesset is used here in the sense that the heathen, etc. are moved by the clean person, which is another expression for their being carried, and it is taught that these do not defile by carriage. ');">¹</span> R. Akiba maintained: They and their hesset. Now, as for R. Eleazar, it is well;<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' That the first view which is that of the Rabbis, is that they do not defile through carriage. ');">²</span>

מיתיבי נכרי ונכרית ע"ז ומשמשיה הן ולא היסטן רבי עקיבא אומר הן והיסטן בשלמא לרבי אלעזר ניחא אלא לרבה קשיא אמר לך רבה וליטעמיך נכרי ונכרית נמי הן ולא היסטן והתניא (ויקרא טו, ב) דבר אל בני ישראל וגו' בני ישראל מטמאין בזיבה ואין נכרים מטמאין בזיבה אבל גזרו עליהן שיהו כזבין לכל דבריהן

but on Rabbah's view it is a difficulty? — Rabbah answers you: And [even] on your view, [can you say of] a heathen man and woman too, they but not their motion [hesset], — surely it was taught: Speak unto the children of Israel [... when any man hath an issue out of his flesh, etc.]:<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lev. XV, 2. This introduces the laws of a zab. ');">³</span> the children of Israel defile through gonorrhoea, but heathens do not defile through gonorrhoea, but they [the Rabbis] decreed concerning them that they rank as zabin in all respects.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Which includes defilement through carriage. ');">⁴</span>

אלא רבה מתרץ לטעמיה נכרי ונכרית הן והיסטן ואבן מסמא שלהן ע"ז היא והיסטה אבל לא אבן מסמא שלה רבי עקיבא אומר ע"ז היא והיסטה ואבן מסמא שלה ורבי אלעזר מתרץ לטעמיה נכרי ונכרית הן והיסטן ואבן מסמא שלהן ע"ז היא ולא היסטה ורבי עקיבא אומר ע"ז היא והיסטה

But Rabbah answers [the difficulty] according to his view, [Thus:] A heathen man or woman: they themselves, their motion [hesset], and their cavity-closing stone [all defile]; an idol: it and its motion [hesset], but not its cavity-closing stone; R. Akiba maintains: An idol: it, its hesset and its cavity-closing stone [defile]. Whilst R. Eleazar interprets it in accordance with his view: A heathen man or woman: they themselves, their motion [hesset], and their cavity-closing stone [defile]; an idol: it, but not its motion [hesset]. Whilst R. Akiba maintains: An idol: it and its motion [defile].<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' On both interpretations the Baraitha must be emended. ');">⁵</span> R. Ashi objected thereto: [If so,] what is [the meaning of] they themselves'?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' If 'hesset' means 'carriage' (v. p. 395, n. 1), what is meant by 'they'? For it cannot mean that they are unclean in themselves, since that is obvious from the fact that we debate whether even their carriage defiles. ');">⁶</span>

מתקיף לה רב אשי מאי הן אלא אמר רב אשי הכי קאמר נכרי ונכרית בין הן שהסיטו את אחרים ובין אחרים שהסיטו אותן טמאים ע"ז שהסיטה אחרים טהורין אחרים שהסיטו אותה טמאים משמשיה בין הן שהסיטו את אחרים ובין אחרים שהסיטו אותן טהורים רבי עקיבא אומר נכרי ונכרית וע"ז בין הן שהסיטו את אחרים ובין אחרים שהסיטו אותן טמאים משמשיה בין הן שהסיטו אחרים ובין אחרים שהסיטו אותן טהורין

— Rather said R. Ashi: This is the meaning: In the case of a heathen man or woman, whether they move others<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' E.g., by moving or weighing down the bench upon which they are sitting. ');">⁷</span> or others move them,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Which is tantamount to carrying them. ');">⁸</span>

ע"ז בשלמא אחרים שהסיטו אותה משכחת לה אלא היא שהסיטה את אחרים היכי משכחת לה אמר רמי בריה דרב ייבא כדתנן הזב בכף מאזנים ואוכלין ומשקין בכף שנייה כרע הזב טמאין

[these others] are unclean.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Thus he translates: 'they themselves'-i.e., when they are moved by others, and their 'hesset'- i. e., when they move others. This gives hesset its usual connotation. ');">⁹</span> If idol moves others, they are clean;<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' This agrees with Rabbah in accordance with whom R. Ashi explains this Baraitha. It can be explained on similar lines according to R. Eleazar too. ');">¹⁰</span> if others move it,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., carriage. ');">¹¹</span> they are unclean. [As for] its service utensils, whether they move others or others move them, [these others] are clean. R. Akiba maintained: In the case of a heathen man or woman and an idol, whether they move others or others move them, [these others', are unclean; as for its service utensils, whether they move others or others move them, they are clean. [In the case of] an idol, as for others moving it, that is well, [for] it is possible; but how is it conceivable for it to move others? Said Rami son of R. Yeba, Even as we learnt: If a <i>zab</i> is on one pan of the scales, and foodstuffs or drinks are in the other pan and the <i>zab</i> outweighs them, they are unclean,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Since he thereby moves the foodstuffs or drinks, which is hesset. In this way an idol may move others, sc. by outweighing them on a pair of scales. ');">¹²</span>