Shabbat 200

לאו היינו מתני' וא"ר יוחנן והוא שנח ע"ג משהו א"ל מתגלגל קאמרת מתגלגל אין סופו לנוח אבל האי כיון דסופו לנוח אע"ג דלא נח כמאן דנח דמי קמ"ל:

Is this not [to be deduced from] our Mishnah, whereon R. Johanan commented. Providing it rests on something, whatever its size?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Since he does not explain that the object came within three, it follows that even then it must alight on something. ');">¹</span> You speak of [a] rolling [object]. replied he; [a] rolling [object] is not destined to rest; but this, since it is destined to rest,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' It is actually falling when intercepted within three handbreadths from the ground. ');">²</span> [I might argue that] though it did not come to rest, it is as though it had rested:<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Hence the thrower is culpable. ');">³</span>

<big><strong>מתני׳</strong></big> הזורק בים ארבע אמות פטור אם היה רקק מים ורשות הרבים מהלכת בו הזורק לתוכו ד' אמות חייב וכמה הוא רקק מים פחות מעשרה טפחים רקק מים ורשות הרבים מהלכת בו הזורק בתוכו ד' אמות חייב:

therefore he informs us [that it is not so]. <b><i>MISHNAH</i></b>. IF ONE THROWS [AN OBJECT OVER A DISTANCE OF] FOUR CUBITS IN THE SEA, HE IS NOT LIABLE. IF THERE IS A WATER POOL. AND A PUBLIC ROAD TRAVERSES IT, AND ONE THROWS [AN OBJECT] FOUR CUBITS THEREIN. HE IS LIABLE. AND WHAT DEPTH CONSTITUTES A POOL? LESS THAN TEN HANDBREADTH.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Hence the thrower is culpable. ');">³</span> IF THERE IS A POOL OF WATER AND A PUBLIC ROAD TRAVERSES IT, AND ONE THROWS [AN OBJECT] FOUR CUBITS THEREIN,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., it travels four cubits before it rests. That is also the meaning in the previous case. ');">⁴</span>

<big><strong>גמ׳</strong></big> א"ל ההוא מרבנן לרבא בשלמא הילוך הילוך תרי זימני הא קמ"ל הילוך ע"י הדחק שמיה הילוך תשמיש ע"י הדחק לא שמיה תשמיש אלא רקק רקק תרי זימני למה לי חד בימות החמה וחד בימות הגשמים וצריכי דאי תנא חדא ה"א ה"מ בימות החמה דעבידי אינשי דמסגי לאקורי נפשייהו אבל בימות הגשמים לא ואי אשמעינן בימות הגשמים דכיון דמיטנפי לא איכפת להו אבל בימות החמה לא

HE IS LIABLE. <b><i>GEMARA</i></b>. One of the Rabbis said to Raba, As for 'traversing [mentioned] twice, that is well, [as] it informs us this: [i] traversing with difficulty is designated traversing;<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Hence the public road that passes through a pool counts as public ground, though one can only traverse it with difficulty. ');">⁵</span> [ii] use with difficulty is not designated use.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' E.g., a pit in the street nine handbreadths deep. Though one can put objects therein, it is inconvenient, and therefore is not the same as a pillar of that height in the street upon which people temporarily place their burdens whilst pausing to rest, and which ranks as public ground (supra 8a). The deduction that such use is not designated use follows from the repetition of traversing, which intimates that only traversing with difficulty is regarded as such, but nothing else. ');">⁶</span>

אביי אמר איצטריך סד"א ה"מ היכא דלא הוי ד' אמות אבל היכא דהוי ד' אמות אקופי מקפי ליה

But why [state] POOL twice? — One refers to summer, and the other to winter, and both are necessary. For if only one were stated, I would say: That is only in summer, when it is the practice of people to walk therein to cool themselves; but in winter [it is] not [so]. And if we were informed [this] of winter, [I would say that] because they are mudstained they do not object;<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' To wade through a pool. ');">⁷</span> but in summer [it is] not [so]. Abaye said, They are necessary: I might argue, That is only where it [the pool] is not four cubits [across]; but where it is four cubits [across], one goes round it.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Instead of wading through it; hence it is not public ground. Therefore it is stated twice, to show that this case too is included. ');">⁸</span> R. Ashi said; They are necessary: I might argue, That is only where it [the pool] is four [across];<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Rashi adds cubits; but the masc. form [H] must refer to handbreadths. This reading is also more likely, as otherwise he would not say that if less than four one might step across it. — S. Strashun. ');">⁹</span>

רב אשי אמר איצטריך ס"ד אמינא ה"מ היכא דהוה ד' אבל היכא דלא הואי ארבעה מיפסעי פסעי ליה ואזדא רב אשי לטעמיה דאמר רב אשי האי מאן דזריק ונח אגודא דגמלא מיחייב שהרי רבים בוקעין בו:

but where it is not four, one steps over it.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' And thus avoids it. ');">¹⁰</span> Now, R. Ashi is consistent with his opinion. For R. Ashi said: If one throws [an object] and it alights on the junction of a landing bridge.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Perhaps where the bridge joins the quay. ');">¹¹</span> he is culpable, since many pass across it.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Though many, on the other hand, step over it, it does not on that account cease to be ground publicly used, and the same applies above. ');">¹²</span>

<big><strong>מתני׳</strong></big> הזורק מן הים ליבשה ומן היבשה לים ומן הים לספינה ומן הספינה לים ומן הספינה לחבירתה פטור ספינות קשורות זו בזו מטלטלין מזו לזו אם אינן קשורות אע"פ שמוקפות אין מטלטלין מזו לזו:

<b><i>MISHNAH</i></b>. IF ONE THROWS [AN OBJECT] FROM THE SEA TO DRY LAND,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Which is from a karmelith to public ground. ');">¹³</span> OR FROM DRY LAND TO THE SEA, FROM THE SEA TO A SHIP<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., from a karmelith to private ground. ');">¹⁴</span> OR FROM A SHIP TO THE SEA OR FROM ONE SHIP TO ANOTHER, HE IS NOT CULPABLE. IF SHIPS ARE TIED TOGETHER, ONE MAY CARRY FROM ONE TO ANOTHER. IF THEY ARE NOT TIED TOGETHER, THOUGH LYING CLOSE [TO EACH OTHER], ONE MAY NOT CARRY FROM ONE TO ANOTHER.

<big><strong>גמ׳</strong></big> איתמר ספינה רב הונא אמר מוציאין הימנה זיז כל שהוא וממלא רב חסדא ורבה בר רב הונא אמרי עושה מקום ארבעה וממלא

<b><i>GEMARA</i></b>. It was stated: As for a ship. R. Huna said, A projection, whatever its size, is stuck out [over the side of the ship]. and [water] may then be drawn [from the sea]; R. Hisda and Rabbah son of R. Huna both maintain: One rigs up an enclosure<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lit., 'place'. ');">¹⁵</span> four [handbreadths square] and draws [water].<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., an enclosure above the water is made, which renders the water immediately below technically private ground. and through this the water is drawn. ');">¹⁶</span> [Now], R. Huna said: A projection, whatever its size, is stuck out, and [water] may then be drawn; he holds that the <i>karmelith</i> is measured from the [sea-]bed. so that the air space is a place of non-liability'.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Only ten handbreadths above the ground rank as a karmelith, whilst the space above that is a place of non-liability (supra 7a). Hence everything above the surface of the sea, and even the sea itself above ten handbreadths from its bed, fall within the latter category. ');">¹⁷</span>

רב הונא אמר מוציא הימנה זיז כל שהוא וממלא קסבר כרמלית מארעא משחינן ואוירא מקום פטור הוא ובדין הוא דזיז נמי לא ליבעי אלא כי היכי דליהוי ליה היכרא

Hence logically not even a projection is required.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' For one may certainly carry from a place of non-liability. ');">¹⁸</span> but [it is placed there] to serve as a distinguishing mark.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' That one may not carry from a real karmelith. ');">¹⁹</span> R. Hisda and Rabbah son of R. Huna both maintain: One rigs up an enclosure four square and draws [water]': they hold that the <i>karmelith</i> is measured from the surface of the water, the water being [as] solid ground.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The sea-bed and the sea count as one, as though the ground of the karmelith rose very high. ');">²⁰</span>

רב חסדא ורבה בר רב הונא אמרי עושה מקום ארבעה וממלא קסברי כרמלית משפת מיא משחינן מיא ארעא סמיכתא אי לא עביד מקום ארבעה קא מטלטל מכרמלית לרה"י

[Hence] if a place of four [square] is not set up. one transports [the water] from a <i>karmelith</i> to private ground.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Viz., the ship. ');">²¹</span> R. Nahman said to Rabbah b. Abbuha: But according to R. Huna, who said, 'A projection, whatever its size, is stuck out and [water] may then be drawn', — but sometimes these are not ten,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Handbreadths from the sea-bed to its surface, so that the whole of the sea is a karmelith. ');">²²</span> and so one carries from a <i>karmelith</i> to private ground? — Said he to him: It is well known that a ship cannot travel in less than ten [handbreadths of water].<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' By sefina a large ship is meant, not a small boat. ');">²³</span>

א"ל רב נחמן לרבה בר אבוה ולרב הונא דאמר מוציא הימנה זיז כל שהוא וממלא זימנין דליכא עשרה וקא מטלטל מכרמלית לרה"י אמר ליה גמרינן דאין ספינה מהלכת בפחות מעשרה והא מורשא אית לה אמר רב ספרא גשושי אזלי קמה

But it has a projecting point?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Rashi: the ship has a projecting point (sc. a helm), and as that rises out of the water it is possible for it to sail into a draught of even less than ten handbreadths, and should water be drawn at this point one transports from a karmelith to private ground. Tosaf. and R. Han. (on the reading preserved in MS.M.): perhaps it (the sea-bed) has a projecting eminence just where the water is drawn, from the top of which there are less than ten handbreadths to the sea surface? ');">²⁴</span> — Said R. Safra: Sounders precede it.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Men who sound the depth of the water with long poles, and they take care to avoid such shallows. ');">²⁵</span> R. Nahman b. Isaac said to R. Hiyya b. Abin: But according to R. Hisda and Rabbah son of R. Huna, who maintain, 'One rigs up an enclosure four [square] and draws [water]'. — how could he throw out his waste water?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' For it is forbidden to throw from a private ground (the ship) to a karmelith (the sea). ');">²⁶</span>

א"ל רב נחמן בר יצחק לרב חייא בר אבין לרב חסדא ולרבה בר רב הונא דאמרי עושה מקום ארבעה וממלא שופכין דידיה היכי שדי להו וכ"ת דשדי להו באותו מקום מאיסי ליה דשדי להו אדפנא דספינה והא איכא כחו כחו בכרמלית לא גזרו ומנא תימרא דתניא ספינה אין מטלטלין לא מתוכה לים ולא מן הים לתוכה

And should you answer that he throws it [likewise] through that same enclosure, — it is [surely] repulsive to him!<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' To draw water subsequently through the same place. ');">²⁷</span> — He throws it against the sides of the ship.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Whence it descends into the sea. ');">²⁸</span> But there is his force [behind it]?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Even if he does not throw it directly into the sea, he does so indirectly through the exercise of his force. ');">²⁹</span> They [the Sages] did not prohibit one's force in connection with a <i>karmelith</i>. And whence do you say this? Because it was taught: As for a ship. one may not carry [e.g.. water] from it into the sea or from the sea into it.