Talmud Bavli
Talmud Bavli

Shabbat 229

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1

מותר בקניבת ירק (ואמר רבי חייא בר אבא אמר רבי יוחנן יום כיפורים שחל להיות בחול) מפצעין באגוזים ומפרכסין ברימונים מן המנחה ולמעלה מפני עגמת נפש דבי רב יהודה מקנבי כרבא דבי רבה גרדי קארי כיון דחזא דהוו קא מחרפי אמר להו אתא איגרתא ממערבא משמיה דר' יוחנן דאסיר:

the trimming of vegetables is permitted. Nuts may be cracked and pomegranates scraped from the [time of] minhah and onwards, on account of one's vexation.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lit., 'grief of the soul'. It would be very vexing if the breaking of the Fast had to be delayed whilst these are prepared (Baal Ha-Ma'or V. Marginal Gloss.; Rashi explains it differently) ');"><sup>1</sup></span> The household of Rab Judah trimmed cabbage. Rabbah's household scraped pumpkins. Seeing that they were doing this [too] early,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Before the time of minhah. ');"><sup>2</sup></span> he said to them, A letter has come from the west in R. Johanan's name [to the elect] that this is forbidden.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Such letters afford examples of early Rabbinic Responsa. ');"><sup>3</sup></span>

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2

<br><br><big><strong>הדרן עלך ואלו קשרים</strong></big><br><br>

<b><i>MISHNAH</i></b>. ALL SACRED WRITINGS<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' E.g., the Torah, Prophets, and Writings. ');"><sup>4</sup></span> MAY<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' In this connection 'may' is the equivalent of 'must', and similarly in the Gemara. ');"><sup>5</sup></span> BE SAVED FROM A FIRE,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' By being moved from one domain to another on the Sabbath. V. next Mishnah. ');"><sup>6</sup></span>

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3

מתני׳ <big><strong>כל</strong></big> כתבי הקדש מצילין אותן מפני הדליקה בין שקורין בהן ובין שאין קורין בהן אע"פ שכתובים בכל לשון טעונים גניזה ומפני מה אין קורין בהם מפני ביטול בית המדרש:

WHETHER WE READ THEM OR NOT;<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The reference is to public readings. There was (and is) public reading from the Prophets but not from the Writings (Hagiographa). Rashi quotes another explanation: even private individuals did not read the Writings (on the Sabbath), because public lectures were given on that day, which left no time for private reading. ');"><sup>7</sup></span> AND EVEN IF THEY ARE WRITTEN IN ANY LANGUAGE, THEY MUST BE HIDDEN.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' If they become unfit for use. V. p. 429, n. 5. ');"><sup>8</sup></span> AND WHY DO WE NOT READ [CERTAIN OF THE SACRED WRITINGS]? BECAUSE OF THE NEGLECT OF THE <i>BETH HAMIDRASH</i>.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The public lectures would be neglected. For a general discussion on the manner, etc. of these lectures v. Zunz, G. V. Ch. 20. ');"><sup>9</sup></span>

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4

<big><strong>גמ׳</strong></big> איתמר היו כתובים תרגום או בכל לשון רב הונא אמר אין מצילין אותן מפני הדליקה ורב חסדא אמר מצילין אותן מפני הדליקה אליבא דמאן דאמר ניתנו לקרות בהן דכולי עלמא לא פליגי דמצילין כי פליגי אליבא דמאן דאמר לא ניתנו לקרות בהן רב הונא אמר אין מצילין דהא לא ניתנו לקרות בהן רב חסדא אמר מצילין משום בזיון כתבי הקדש תנן כל כתבי הקדש מצילין אותן מפני הדליקה בין שקורין בהן בין שאין קורין בהן אע"פ שכתובין בכל לשון מאי לאו שקורין בהן נביאים ושאין קורין בהן כתובים אע"פ שכתובין בכל לשון דלא ניתנו לקרות בהן וקתני מצילין ותיובתא דרב הונא

<b><i>GEMARA</i></b>. It was stated: If they are written in Targum<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The Aramaic translation of the Pentateuch and other portions of the Bible are called Targum — the translation par excellence. But v. Kaplan, op. cit. pp. 283 seq. ');"><sup>10</sup></span> or in any [other] language, — R. Huna said: They must not be saved from a fire; while R. Hisda ruled: They may be saved from a fire. On the view that it is permissible to read them,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' publicly; v. Meg. 8b. ');"><sup>11</sup></span> all agree that they must be saved. They differ only according to the view that they may not be read. R. Huna says: We may not save [them], since they may not be read. R. Hisda says: We must save [them], because of the disgrace to Holy Writings.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' It disgraces them if they are allowed to be burnt like something worthless. ');"><sup>12</sup></span>

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5

אמר לך רב הונא ותסברא אימא סיפא טעונין גניזה השתא אצולי מצילינן גניזה מיבעי אלא רב הונא מתרץ לטעמיה ורב חסדא מתרץ לטעמיה רב הונא מתרץ לטעמיה בין שקורין בהם נביאים ובין שאין קורין בהם כתובים במה דברים אמורים שכתובין בלשון הקדש אבל בכל לשון אין מצילין ואפילו הכי גניזה בעו רב חסדא מתרץ לטעמיה בין שקורין בהן נביאים ובין שאין קורין בהן כתובים אע"פ שכתובין בכל לשון נמי מצילין והכי קאמר ומקק שלהן טעונין גניזה

We learnt: ALL SACRED WRITINGS MAY BE SAVED FROM THE FIRE, WHETHER WE READ THEM OR NOT, and even if they are written in any language. Surely WHETHER WE READ THEM refers to the Prophets, whilst OR NOT refers to the Writings, AND EVEN IF THEY ARE WRITTEN IN ANY LANGUAGE, though they may not be read [publicly], yet he [the Tanna] teaches that they MAY BE SAVED, which refutes R. Huna? — R. Huna can answer you: Is that logical? Consider the second clause: THEY MUST BE HIDDEN: seeing that they must be saved,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' On your hypothesis. ');"><sup>13</sup></span> need hiding be mentioned?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Obviously if they have sufficient sanctity to be saved on the Sabbath they must not be simply thrown away when no longer fit for use. ');"><sup>14</sup></span> But R. Huna explains it in accordance with his view, while R. Hisda explains it according to his. R. Huna explains it in accordance with his view. WHETHER WE READ THEM, [i.e.] the Prophets; OR NOT, [i.e.,] the Writings. That is only if they are written in the Holy Tongue [Hebrew], but if they are written in any [other] language, we may not save them, yet even so they must be hidden. R. Hisda explains it according to his view: WHETHER WE READ THEM, [i.e.,] the Prophets, OR NOT, [i.e.,] the Writings; EVEN IF THEY ARE WRITTEN IN ANY LANGUAGE, we must still save them. And this is what he states: And [even] their worm-eaten [material] MUST BE HIDDEN.

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6

מיתיבי היו כתובים תרגום וכל לשון מצילין אותן מפני הדליקה תיובתא דרב הונא אמר לך רב הונא האי תנא סבר ניתנו לקרות בהן ת"ש היו כתובין גיפטית מדית עיברית עילמית יוונית אע"פ שלא ניתנו לקרות בהן מצילין אותן מפני הדליקה תיובתא דרב הונא אמר לך רב הונא תנאי היא דתניא היו כתובין תרגום ובכל לשון מצילין אותן מפני הדליקה ר' יוסי אומר אין מצילין אותן מפני הדליקה

An objection is raised: If they are written in <i>Targum </i>or in any [other] language, they may be saved from the fire: this refutes R. Huna? — R. Huna answers you: This Tanna holds, They may be read. Come and hear: If they are written in Egyptian,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Or, Coptic. ');"><sup>15</sup></span> Median, a trans[-Euphratean]<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' [H] so Jast.: perhaps the reference is to Hebrew in transliteration. ');"><sup>16</sup></span> Aramaic, Elamitic,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Of Elam, south of Assyria. ');"><sup>17</sup></span>

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7

אמר ר' יוסי מעשה באבא חלפתא שהלך אצל רבן גמליאל בריבי לטבריא ומצאו שהי' יושב על שלחנו של (יוחנן הנזוף) ובידו ספר איוב תרגום והוא קורא בו אמר לו זכור אני ברבן גמליאל אבי אביך שהיה עומד ע"ג מעלה בהר הבית והביאו לפניו ספר איוב תרגום ואמר לבנאי שקעהו תחת הנדבך אף הוא צוה עליו וגנזו ר' יוסי ברבי יהודה אומר עריבה של טיט כפו עליו אמר רבי שתי תשובות בדבר חדא וכי טיט בהר הבית מנין ועוד וכי מותר לאבדן ביד אלא מניחן במקום התורפה והן מרקיבין מאליהן מאן תנאי

or Greek, though they may not be read, they may be saved from a fire: this refutes R. Huna? — R. Huna can answer you: It is [a controversy of] Tannaim. For it was taught: If they are written in <i>Targum </i>or in any language, they may be saved from a fire. R. Jose said: They may not be saved from a fire. Said R. Jose: It once happened that my father Halafta visited R. Gamaliel Berabbi<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' A title of scholars most frequently applied to disciples of R. Judah ha-Nasi and his contemporaries, but also to some of his predecessors (as here), and sometimes to the first Amoraim (Jast.). V. Naz., Sonc. ed., p. 64, n. 1. ');"><sup>18</sup></span> at Tiberias and found him sitting at the table of Johanan b. Nizuf with the <i>Targum </i>of the Book of Job in his hand<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' This shows that a Targum of Job existed already in the middle of the first century C.E. This is not identical with the extant Targum, which on internal evidence must have been composed later; v. J.E. art. Targum, Vol. XII, p. 62; Zunz, G. V. 64 seq. ');"><sup>19</sup></span> which he was reading. Said he to him, 'I remember that R. Gamaliel, your grandfather, was standing on a high eminence on the Temple Mount, when the Book of Job in a Targumic version was brought before him, whereupon he said to the builder, "Bury it under the bricks."20 He [R. Gamaliel II] too gave orders, and they hid it.'<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The spread of words inimical to Judaism, both through the rise of Christianity and false claimants to the Messiahship, caused the Rabbis to frown upon books other than those admitted to the Holy Scriptures, even such as were not actually inimical thereto. — Weiss, Dor, I, 212, 236. ');"><sup>21</sup></span> R. Jose son of R. Judah said: They overturned a tub of mortar upon it. Said Rabbi: There are two objections to this: Firstly, how came mortar on the Temple Mount?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' A mixture of lime and sand was used, but not mortar, which is made of earth and water. ');"><sup>22</sup></span> Moreover, is it then permitted to destroy them with one's own hands? For they must be put in a neglected place to decay of their own accord.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The objection to writing down the Targum was probably due to the fear that it might in time be regarded as sacred. V. also Kaplan, op. cit., p. 285. ');"><sup>23</sup></span> Which Tannaim [differ on this question]?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Sc. whether they may be rescued from a fire. ');"><sup>24</sup></span>

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