Shabbat 271:1

מימהל היכי מהלינן ליה

how then can we circumcise him?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' On the eighth day which falls on the Sabbath, seeing that he may be non-viable, in which case there is really no obligation to circumcise him at all, ');">¹</span>

אמר רב אדא בר אהבה מלין אותו ממה נפשך אם חי הוא שפיר קא מהיל ואם לאו מחתך בבשר הוא

— Said R. Adda b. Ahabah: We circumcise him in either case: if he is viable, the is rightly circumcised; whilst if not, one [merely] cuts flesh.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Which cannot be regarded as the inflicting of a wound (this is the form of labour to which circumcision belongs). since the infant is already as dead. ');">²</span>

ואלא הא דתניא ספק בן ז' ספק בן ח' אין מחללין עליו את השבת אמאי נימהליה ממה נפשך אם חי הוא שפיר קא מהיל ואם לאו מחתך בבשר הוא

Then as to what was taught, If there is doubt whether he is a seven-months' [infant] or an eight-months', we must not desecrate the Sabbath on his account:<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' V. supra 135a. ');">³</span>

אמר מר בריה דרבינא אנא ורב נחומי בר זכריה תרגימנא מימהיל הכי נמי מהלינן ליה לא נצרכה אלא למכשירי מילה ואליבא דרבי אליעזר

why so? let us circumcise him in either case: if he is viable, he is rightly circumcised; if not, you [merely] cut flesh? — Mar the son of Rabina said: R. Nehumi b. Zechariah and I explained it: We do indeed circumcise him; this [teaching] is required only in respect of the preliminaries of circumcision, this being in accordance with R. Eliezer.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Supra 130a; but here the Sabbath may not be violated for the preliminaries. ');">⁴</span>

אמר אביי כתנאי (ויקרא יא, לט) וכי ימות מן הבהמה אשר היא לכם לאכלה להביא בן שמנה שאין שחיטתו מטהרתו רבי יוסי ברבי יהודה ור' אלעזר בר"ש אומרים שחיטתו מטהרתו

Abaye said, This is dependent on Tannaim:<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Sc. whether a non-viable infant is so completely regarded as dead that the infliction of a wound on it is merely flesh cutting. ');">⁵</span>

מאי לאו בהא קא מיפלגי דמר סבר חי הוא ומ"ס מת הוא

And if any beast, of which ye may eat, die: [he that toucheth the carcase thereof shall be unclean until the even];<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lev. XI, 39. ');">⁶</span>

אמר רבא אי הכי אדמיפלגי לענין טומאה וטהרה ליפלגי לענין אכילה

this is to include an eight-months' [animal],<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., a calf born in, the eighth month of bearing instead of in the usual ninth. ');">⁷</span>

אלא דכולי עלמא מת הוא ורבי יוסי ברבי יהודה ורבי אלעזר ברבי שמעון סברי כטרפה טרפה לאו אף על גב דמתה היא שחיטתה מטהרתה הכא נמי לא שנא ורבנן לא דמי לטרפה טרפה היתה לה שעת הכושר האי לא היתה לה שעת הכושר

[teaching] that <i>shechitah</i><span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' V. Glos. ');">⁸</span>

וכ"ת טרפה מבטן מאי איכא למימר התם יש במינה שחיטה הכא אין במינה שחיטה

does not render it clean.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' For even if ritually slaughtered, it may not be eaten, since it was non-viable (v. p. 679, n. 5; the same applies to animals), and therefore it is the same as though it had died of itself. ');">⁹</span>

איבעיא להו מי פליגי רבנן עליה דרבן שמעון בן גמליאל או לא אם תמצי לומר פליגי הלכה כמותו או אין הלכה כמותו

R. Jose son of R. Judah and R. Eleazar son of R. Simeon maintain: It is <i>shechitah</i> does render it clean. Surely they differ in this: one Master holds, It is a living creature;<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Therefore shechitah renders it clean, just as in the case of any other animal that is permitted as food. ');">¹⁰</span>

ת"ש עגל שנולד ביום טוב שוחטין אותו בי"ט הכא במאי עסקינן דקים ליה בגוויה שכלו לו חדשיו

whilst the other Master holds, It is [technically] dead? — Said Raba: If so, instead of disputing on the matter of uncleanness and cleanness, let them dispute on the question of consumption.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' According to the first Tanna shechitah should make it fit for food, but not according to the others. ');">¹¹</span>

ת"ש ושוין שאם נולד הוא ומומו עמו שזה מן המוכן ה"נ שכלו לו חדשיו

Rather [say then] all hold that it is [technically] dead, but R. Jose son of R. Judah and R. Eleazar son of R. Simeon argue, it is as a <i>terefah</i>:<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' An animal suffering with some disease or illness on account of which it may not be eaten after shechitah. It too is regarded as technically dead. ');">¹²</span>

ת"ש דאמר רב יהודה אמר שמואל הלכה כרבן שמעון בן גמליאל הלכה מכלל דפליגי ש"מ

a <i>terefah</i>, though indeed it is dead, does not <i>shechitah</i> render it clean?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' This is deduced by the Rabbis from the present verse. ');">¹³</span>

אמר אביי נפל מן הגג או אכלו ארי דברי הכל חי הוא כי פליגי שפיהק ומת מר סבר חי הוא ומר סבר מת הוא

So here too it is not different. But the Rabbis [reason]: it is unlike a <i>terefah</i>, for a <i>terefah</i> had a period of fitness,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Before it contracted that disease. ');">¹⁴</span>

למאי נפקא מיניה לפטור מן הייבום

whereas this one enjoyed no period of fitness. And should you object, what can be said about a <i>terefah</i> from birth?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lit., 'the womb'. ');">¹⁵</span>

נפל מן הגג או אכלו ארי דברי הכל חי הוא והא רב פפא ורב הונא בריה דרב יהושע איקלעו לבי בריה דרב אידי בר אבין ועביד להו עיגלא תילתא ביממא דשבעה ואמרי ליה אי איתרחיתו ליה עד לאורתא הוה אכלינן מיניה השתא לא אכלינן מיניה

There <i>shechitah</i> is efficacious for its kind, whereas here <i>shechitah</i> is not efficacious for its kind.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' An animal born at nine months belongs to the species where shechitah counts, though this particular one is an exception. But no eight-months' animal is rendered fit for food by shechitah. ');">¹⁶</span>

אלא כשפיהק ומת דברי הכל מת הוא כי פליגי בנפל מן הגג ואכלו ארי מר סבר מת הוא ומר סבר חי הוא

The scholars asked: Do the Rabbis disagree with R. Simeon b. Gamaliel<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Supra 135b bottom, ');">¹⁷</span>

בריה דרב דימי בר יוסף אתיליד ליה ההוא ינוקא בגו תלתין יומין שכיב יתיב קמתאביל עילויה אמר ליה אבוה צוורוניתא קבעית למיכל אמר ליה קים לי ביה שכלו לו חדשיו

or not?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The question is whether they permit a young animal to be eaten before it is eight days old. ');">¹⁸</span>

רב אשי איקלע בי רב כהנא איתרע ביה מילתא בגו תלתין יומין חזייה דיתיב וקא מתאבל עילויה אמר ליה לא סבר ליה מר להא דאמר רב יהודה אמר שמואל הלכה כרבן שמעון בן גמליאל אמר ליה קים לי בגויה שכלו לו חדשיו

Should you answer [that] they differ, is the <i>halachah</i> as he or not? — Come and hear: If a calf is born on a festival, one may slaughter it on a festival!<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Though it is only one day old. ');">¹⁹</span>

איתמר מת בתוך שלשים ועמדה ונתקדשה אמר רבינא משמיה דרבא

— What case do we treat of here? Where we know for certain that its months [of bearing] were complete.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Then it is definitely viable. ');">²⁰</span> Come and hear: And they agree that if it is born together with its blemish, it is mukan!<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' V. Glos. The reference is to a firstling born blemished on a festival. A firstling might not be eaten before it received a blemish and we are taught there that this animal is mukan and may be eaten on the day of its birth. V. Bez. 26b. ');">²¹</span> Here too [it is said] where its months [of bearing] were complete. Come and hear: For Rab Judah said in Samuel's name: The <i>halachah</i>, is as R. Simeon b. Gamaliel. 'The <i>halachah</i> [is thus]' implies that they [the Rabbis] disagree.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Cf. supra 106b. ');">²²</span> This proves it. Abaye said: If it falls from a roof or is devoured by a lion, all hold that it was viable.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., if the infant dies through an external cause before thirty, days, we assume that it was viable. Hence if he was an only child and survived his father, no matter by how short a time, his mother is free from Levirate marriage (v. Deut. XXV, 5), since his father did have a son. Similarly in the case of an animal, if slaughtered before it is eight days old it may be eaten, because we assume that it was viable, ');">²³</span> When do they differ? if it yawns and dies.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., it dies naturally within thirty days, having shown very little vitality. ');">²⁴</span> One Master holds: It was viable; whilst the other Master holds: it was [technically] dead. What is the practical difference? Whether it frees the mother from Levirate marriage.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' V.p. 685, n. 12. ');">²⁵</span> 'If it falls from a roof or is devoured by a lion, all hold that it was viable.' But surely R. Papa and R. Huna the son of R. Joshua visited the house of R. Iddi b. Abin's son, who prepared a third-born calf<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., the third which its mother had calved. Aliter: (a) a third-grown calf; (b) a calf in its third year. ');">²⁶</span> for them on its seventh day [from birth], whereupon they said to him, 'Had you waited with it until evening<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' When it would have been eight days old. ');">²⁷</span> we would have eaten thereof: now we will not eat thereof'!<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Though it was slaughtered. ');">²⁸</span> — Rather [say thus:] If it yawns and dies, all agree that it was dead [non-viable]; they differ where it falls from a roof or is devoured by a lion, one Master holding that it was viable; the other Master, that it was dead.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Hence the attitude of R. Papa and R. Huna b. R. Joshua. ');">²⁹</span> A child was born to the son of R. Dimi b. Joseph, [and] it died within thirty days. [Thereupon] he sat and mourned for it.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., he performed the ritual mourning rites which are obligatory upon a bereaved father. ');">³⁰</span> Said his father to him, 'Do you wish to eat dainties?'<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lit., 'throat-ticklers'; Jast.: Which friends send to mourners — i.e., you should not mourn for him, seeing that he was non-viable. ');">³¹</span> 'I know for certain that its months [of pregnancy] were complete.' R. Ashi visited R. Kahana: a mishap befell him within the thirty days.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., his child died within thirty days from birth. ');">³²</span> Seeing him sitting and mourning for it, he said to him, 'Does the Master not agree with what Rab Judah said in Samuel's name: The <i>halachah</i> is as R. Simeon b. Gamaliel?' — 'I know for certain that its months were complete,' replied he. It was stated: If it died within thirty days,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' V. supra n. 13; the same case is referred to here. ');">³³</span> and she [the mother] arose and was betrothed,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' At a later date, thinking that the child had freed her from the levirate obligation. ');">³⁴</span> — Rabina said in Raba's name: