Temurah 30

Chapter 30

א והתניא כיוצא בו א"ר יוסי (עזרא ח, לה) והבאים מהשבי בני הגולה הקריבו עולות פרים (בני בקר) שנים עשר אילים תשעים ותשעה כבשים שבעים ושבעה שעירי חטאת שנים עשר הכל עולה לה'

1 Has it not been taught: Likewise,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Tosaf. explains that the Baraitha cited here is with reference to Lev. V, 10 where it says: And he shall offer the second for a burnt-offering. The Baraitha states that just as a burnt-offering must not be eaten, so this sin-offering must not be eaten. Thereupon the Baraitha proceeds: Likewise, etc.');">1 R'Jose said: The children of the captivity that were come out of the exile offered burnt-offerings, twelve bullocks, ninety-six rams, seventy-seven lambs, twelve he-goats, for a sin-offering, all this was a burnt-offering unto the Lord.2

ב וחטאת מי קרבה עולה אמר רבא כי עולה מה עולה אינה נאכלת אף חטאת אינה נאכלת שהיה רבי יוסי אומר על עבודה זרה הביאום ואמר רב יהודה אמר שמואל על עבודה זרה שעשו בימי צדקיהו

2 But can a sin-offering be brought as a burnt-offering?3 - Said Raba: [It means] like a burnt-offering [in this respect]. Just as a burnt-offering must not be eaten, so that sin-offering was not to be eaten. For R'Jose used to say: They brought the twelve he-goats<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Corresponding to the twelve tribes. A goat for a sin-offering is brought for the sin of idolatry of which a congregation has been guilty and it is burnt outside the camp.');">4 for the sin of idolatry. And Rab Judah reported in the name of Samuel: On account of the idolatry which they committed in the time of Zedekiah. Now, assuming that the one5

ג קא סלקא דעתין למאן דאית ליה חטאת צבור שנתכפרו בעליה מתה אית ליה נמי חטאת צבור שמתו בעליה מתה והא הכא דאיכא דמתו בעליה וקא קרבה

3 who holds that a congregational sin-offering whose owners procured atonement is left to die, also holds that a sin-offering whose owners have died is left to die, is there not here6 a case where the owners have died7 and yet the sin-offering is offered!8

ד אמר רב פפא אפילו למאן דאמר חטאת צבור שכפרו בעליה מתה חטאת צבור שמתו בעליה אינה מתה לפי שאין הצבור מתים

4 - Said R'Papa: Even according to the one who holds that a congregational sin-offering whose owners have procured atonement is left to die, a congregational sin-offering whose owners have died is not left to die, for 'a congregation does not die'.9 Whence does R'Papa derive this?

ה מנא ליה לרב פפא הא אי נימא משום דכתיב (תהלים מה, יז) תחת אבותיך יהיו בניך אי הכי אפי' יחיד נמי

5 Shall we say because Scripture says: Instead of thy fathers shall be thy children?10 If this be so, the same should apply to [the sacrifice] of an individual?11 - Rather this is the reason why [the law of] the owners of [a sin-offering] who died does not apply to a congregation, because [we make an inference] from the case of the goats brought on Festivals and New Moons, since the Divine Law says: Bring them from the offerings of the Temple Treasury.

ו אלא היינו טעמא שאין הציבור מתים משעירי רגלים וראשי חדשים דאמר רחמנא אייתינהו מתרומת הלשכה ודלמא מתו מרייהו דהני זוזי אלא לאו ש"מ אין הצבור מתים

6 Now perhaps the owners of this money have died?12 Must you therefore not admit that a congregation does not die? And if you prefer [another solution] I may say: When these sin-offerings [goats] were offered13

ז ואיבעית אימא כי אקרובינהו להני חטאות אחיי אקרבינהו דכתיב (עזרא ג, יב) ורבים מהכהנים הלוים וראשי האבות הזקנים אשר ראו את הבית הראשון ביסדו זה הבית בוכים בקול גדול ורבים בתרועה

7 they were offered on behalf of those still alive,14 since Scripture says: But many of the priests and Levites and chiefs of the fathers who were ancient men, that had seen the first house, when the foundation of this house was laid before their eyes, wept with a loud voice and many shouted aloud for joy.15 Perhaps [the survivors] were only a minority?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' A minority of the Israelites, and for a minority we do not offer the same sacrifice as for a majority but as for individuals. Since then twelve goats were offered on behalf of the twelve tribes, these must have been meant for the first people mentioned in the text who had died, and we can therefore infer that the law of a sin-offering whose owner died does not apply to a congregation.');">16

ח ודילמא הנך מיעוטא לא מצית אמרת דכתיב (עזרא ג, יג) (ולא הכירו העם בתרועה ושמחה) לקול בכי העם

8 - You cannot say this, since [the text continues]: So that the people could not discern the noise of the shouting from the noise of the weeping of the people.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' We therefore see that those who wept were in a majority over those who rejoiced and the weepers belonged to the first people mentioned in the text who had died (Rashi) .');">17 But how could they bring [a sacrifice for idolatry]?

ט והיכי מקרבי להו והרי מזידין הוו אמר רבי יוחנן הוראת שעה היתה

9 Were they not wilful [sinners of idolatry in the days of Zedekiah]? - Said R'Johanan: It was a special decision.18 So indeed it stands to reason.19 For should you not say so, there is no difficulty as regards [the twelve] bullocks and [the twelve] goats, for this corresponds with the twelve tribes.20 But as regards [rams]21

י הכי נמי מסתברא דאי לא תימא הכי בשלמא פרים ושעירי' כנגד שנים עשר שבטים אלא כבשים כנגד מי אלא הוראת שעה היתה

10 and lambs, with reference to whom [were they brought]? You must say therefore that this was a special decision [and here, too, it was a special decision].22

יא תנן התם משמת יוסף בן יועזר איש צרידה ויוסף בן יוחנן איש ירושלים בטלו האשכולות איש שהכל בו

11 We have learnt elsewhere: When Joseph B'Jo'ezer of Zereda and Joseph B'Johanan of Jerusalem died the grape-clusters [the scholars] came to an end.23 What is the meaning of eshkoloth [grapeclusters]?24

יב ואמר רב יהודה אמר שמואל כל אשכולות שעמדו להן לישראל מימות משה עד שמת יוסף בן יועזר היו למדין תורה כמשה רבינו מכאן ואילך לא היו למדין תורה כמשה רבינו

12 - A man in whom all is contained.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Heb. ish she-hakol bo, a play on the word eshkoloth; universality of the knowledge of the Torah (v. Sh. Mek.) . Rashi explains the phrase as denoting one having the knowledge in Torah, fearing God and practising benevolence.');">25 R'Judah reported in the name of Samuel: All the 'grape-clusters' who arose from the days of Moses until Joseph B'Jo'ezer learnt Torah like Moses our Teacher.26

יג והאמר רב יהודה אמר שמואל שלשת אלפים הלכות נשתכחו בימי אבלו של משה דאישתכח להו אישתכח ודגמירן להו הוו גמירי כמשה רבינו

13 From that time onward, they did not learn Torah like Moses our Teacher. But did not Rab Judah report in the name of Samuel: Three thousand halachoth were forgotten during the period of mourning for Moses? - Those laws which were forgotten were forgotten, but those which were learnt27 they learnt like Moses our Teacher.

יד והא תניא משמת משה אם רבו מטמאין טמאו אם רבו טהורין טיהרו

14 But has it not been taught: After the death of Moses, if those who pronounced unclean were in the majority,28 they [the Rabbis] declared [the object] unclean, and if those who pronounced clean were in the majority, they [the Rabbis] declared [it] clean?29

טו ליבא דאימעיט מיגמר הוו גמירי להו כמשה רבינו

15 - Their acumen<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lit., 'heart', and they could not recall the laws by means of discussion. Therefore there were differences of opinion with reference to them and the laws were settled by going according to the decision of the majority.');">30

טז במתניתא תנא כל אשכולות שעמדו לישראל מימות משה עד שמת יוסף בן יועזר איש צרידה לא היה בהם שום דופי מכאן ואילך היה בהן שום דופי

16 diminished, but what they had learnt31 they learnt like Moses our Teacher.32

יז והתניא מעשה בחסיד אחד שהיה גונח מלבו ושאלו לרופאים ואמרו אין לו תקנה עד שיינק חלב רותח שחרית והביאו עז וקשרו לו בכרעי מיטתו והיה יונק ממנה חלב

17 It has been taught: All the 'grape-clusters' who arose in Israel from the days of Moses until the death of Joseph B'Jo'ezer of Zereda were free from all dofi [taint].33 From that time onward some matter of taint was found in them.34 But has it not been taught: There is the story of a certain hasid35 who groaned [from a pain] in his heart, and when the doctors were consulted they said that there was no remedy for him unless he sucked hot milk from [a goat36 every morning].

יח למחר נכנסו חביריו לבקרו כיון שראו העז אמרו ליסטים מזויין בתוך ביתו ואנו נכנסים לבקרו ישבו ובדקו ולא מצאו בו עון אלא של אותה העז בלבד

18 They brought a goat and bound it to the feet of his bed and he used to suck milk from it. Next day his friends came to visit him. When they saw the goat they exclaimed: 'A robber in arms is in the house37

יט ואף הוא בשעת מיתתו אמר יודע אני בעצמי שאין בי עון אלא של אותה העז בלבד שעברתי על דברי חבירי שהרי אמרו חכמים אין מגדלין בהמה דקה בארץ ישראל

19 and shall we go in to visit him? ' [They38 left him immediately. When he died] they sat down and made investigation and found no other sin in him except that of [the keeping of] the goat. He [the hasid] too at his death said: 'I myself know that I have not sinned except in the keeping of this goat, having thus transgressed the teaching of my colleagues'.

כ וקי"ל כל היכא דאמר מעשה בחסיד אחד או ר' יהודה בן בבא או ר' יהודה בר אילעאי ורבנן בתר יוסף בן יועזר איש צרידה דרי דרי הוו

20 For the Sages taught: One must not rear small cattle in the Land of Israel. And it is also an established fact with us that wherever the Talmud speaks of a certain hasid it refers either to R'Judah B'Baba or R'Judah B'Ila'i. Now [these] Rabbis39 lived many generations after Joseph B'Jo'ezer of Zereda.40

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