Yevamot 152

הא לא צריכא ליה

Such a woman<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Pharaoh's daughter. ');">¹</span> obviously was in no need of it.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Hence she could be accepted. ');">²</span> But let the inference<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' That marriage with a forbidden woman is valid. ');">³</span> be drawn from the fact that she<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Pharaoh's daughter. ');">¹</span>

[ותיפוק ליה] דהא מצרית ראשונה היא וכי תימא הנך אזלי לעלמא והני אחריני נינהו

was an Egyptian of the first generation!<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Who is forbidden to marry into the congregation of Israel. The third generation only is permitted. (V. Deut. XXIII. 9). ');">⁴</span> And were you to reply that those<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The old Egyptians spoken of in the text cited (supra n. 4). ');">⁵</span> had already departed, and these<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The Egyptians of later times. ');">⁶</span> are others;<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Other nations superseded them. Hence the prohibition does not apply to them. ');">⁷</span>

והא תניא א"ר יהודה מנימין גר מצרי היה לי חבר מתלמידי ר"ע אמר אני מצרי ראשון ונשאתי מצרית ראשונה אשיא לבני מצרית שניה כדי שיהא בן בני ראוי לבא בקהל

surely, it may be pointed out, it was taught: R. Judah stated, 'Menjamin, an Egyptian proselyte, was one of my colleagues among the disciples of R. Akiba, and he told me: I am an Egyptian of the first generation and married an Egyptian woman of the first generation; I shall arrange for my son to marry an Egyptian of the second generation in order that my grandson may be enabled to enter into the congregation of Israel!'<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Which shews that even after the days of Solomon the Egyptians were still regarded as the descendants of the ancient inhabitants of Egypt. ');">⁸</span> R. Papa replied: Are we to take our directions from Solomon! Solomon did not marry at all,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' His marriage with Pharaoh's daughter was an invalid one, and she could only be regarded as his mistress. ');">⁹</span> for it is written, Of the nations concerning which the Lord said unto the Children of Israel: 'Ye shall not go among them, neither shall they come among you; for surely they will turn away your heart after their gods'; Solomon did cleave unto them in love.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I Kings XI. 2, emphasis on love, sc. he did not marry them. ');">¹⁰</span> The expression. And he become allied … in marriage,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' V.supra p. 514, n. 15. ');">¹¹</span>

אמר רב פפא אנן משלמה ליקו ונתיב שלמה לא נסיב מידי דכתיב ביה (מלכים א יא, ב) מן הגוים אשר אמר ה' אל בני ישראל לא תבואו בהם והם לא יבואו בכם אכן יטו את לבבכם אחרי אלהיהם בהם דבק שלמה לאהבה אלא קשיא ויתחתן

however, presents a difficulty!<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Here the union is actually described as a marriage! ');">¹²</span> — On account of his excessive love for her. Scripture regards him as if he had become allied by marriage to her. Said Rabina to R. Ashi: Surely we learned A MAN WHO IS WOUNDED IN HIS STONES, AND ONE WHOSE MEMBRUM VIRILE IS CUT OFF, ARE PERMITTED TO MARRY A PROSELYTE OR AN EMANCIPATED SLAVE, [from which it follows] that they are forbidden to marry a nethinah!<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Had they been permitted to marry such a woman, this should have been stated; and the permission to marry a proselyte and an emancipated slave would be inferred a minori ad majus. How then could it be stated, supra 76a. that a nethinah is permitted to be married to a man wounded in his stones? ');">¹³</span> — The other replied: According to your view,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' That a nethinah is forbidden to marry disabled men. ');">¹⁴</span> read the final clause, THEY ARE ONLY FORBIDDEN TO ENTER INTO THE ASSEMBLY, [from which it follows] that they are permitted to marry a nethinah! But [the fact is that] no inference may be drawn from this Mishnah.

מתוך אהבה יתירה שאהבה מעלה עליו הכתוב כאילו נתחתן בה

<b><i>MISHNAH</i></b>. AN AMMONITE AND A MOABITE ARE FORBIDDEN<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' To enter the assembly of the Lord (v. Deut. XXIII. 4ff). ');">¹⁵</span> AND THEIR PROHIBITION IS FOR EVER.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' V. ibid. ');">¹⁶</span> THEIR WOMEN, HOWEVER, ARE PERMITTED AT ONCE.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Immediately after conversion. ');">¹⁷</span> AN EGYPTIAN AND AN EDOMITE ARE FORBIDDEN<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Cf. supra n. 2 and v. Deut. ibid. 8f. ');">¹⁸</span>

א"ל רבינא לרב אשי והא אנן תנן פצוע דכא וכרות שפכה מותרים בגיורת ומשוחררת הא בנתינה אסירי

ONLY UNTIL THE THIRD GENERATION.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Exclusive. The third generation is permitted. ');">¹⁹</span> WHETHER THEY ARE MALES OR FEMALES. R. SIMEON, HOWEVER, PERMITS THEIR WOMEN FORTHWITH.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Immediately after conversion. ');">¹⁷</span> SAID R. SIMEON: THIS LAW<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' That Egyptian and Edomite women are permitted to marry an Israelite immediately after their conversion. ');">²⁰</span> MIGHT BE INFERRED A MINORI AD MAJUS: IF WHERE THE MALES ARE FORBIDDEN FOR ALL TIME<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Ammonites and Moabites. for instance. ');">²¹</span>

א"ל וליטעמיך אימא סיפא ואינן אסורין אלא מלבא בקהל הא בנתינה שרו אלא מהא ליכא למשמע מינה:

THE FEMALES ARE PERMITTED FORTHWITH,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Immediately after conversion. ');">²²</span> HOW MUCH MORE SHOULD THE FEMALES BE PERMITTED FORTHWITH WHERE THE MALES ARE FORBIDDEN UNTIL THE THIRD GENERATION ONLY.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Egyptians and Edomites. ');">²³</span> THEY REPLIED: IF THIS<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' That Egyptian and Edomite women are permitted to marry an Israelite immediately after their conversion. ');">²⁰</span> IS AN <i>HALACHAH</i>,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., a tradition R. Simeon received from his teachers. ');">²⁴</span>

<big><strong>מתני׳</strong></big> עמוני ומואבי אסורים ואיסורן איסור עולם אבל נקבותיהם מותרות מיד

WE SHALL ACCEPT IT; BUT IF IT IS ONLY AN INFERENCE,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Of R. Simeon's own reasoning. ');">²⁵</span> AN OBJECTION CAN BE POINTED OUT. HE REPLIED: NOT SO.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Even though the ruling were based on an inference no valid objection could be advanced against it. V. Gemara infra. ');">²⁶</span> [BUT IN FACT] IT IS AN <i>HALACHAH</i> THAT I AM REPORTING. <b><i>GEMARA</i></b>. Whence are these laws inferred? — R. Johanan replied: Scripture stated, And when Sail saw David go forth against the Philistine, he said into Abner, the captain of the host: 'Abner, whose son is this youth'? And Abner said: 'As thy soul liveth, O King, I cannot tell'.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I Sam. XVII, 55. ');">²⁷</span>

מצרי ואדומי אינם אסורים אלא עד שלשה דורות אחד זכרים ואחד נקבות ר"ש מתיר את הנקבות מיד א"ר שמעון ק"ו הדברים ומה אם במקום שאסר את הזכרים איסור עולם התיר את הנקבות מיד מקום שלא אסר את הזכרים אלא עד שלשה דורות אינו דין שנתיר את הנקבות מיד

But did he<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Saul. ');">²⁸</span> not know him? Surely it is written, And he loved him greatly; and he became his armour bearer!<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I Sam. XVI, 21. ');">²⁹</span> — He rather made the inquiry concerning his father. But did he not know his father? Surely it is written, And the man was an old man in the days of Saul, stricken in years among them;<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Ibid. XVII, 12. ');">³⁰</span> and Rab or, it might be said, R. Abba, stated that this referred to the father of David, Jesse. who came in with an army<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' He was chief over six hundred thousand men (Rashi). ');">³¹</span>

אמרו לו אם הלכה נקבל ואם לדין יש תשובה אמר להם לא כי הלכה אני אומר:

and went out with an army!<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' He was chief over six hundred thousand men (Rashi). ');">³¹</span> — It is this that Saul meant: Whether he descended from Perez,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The son of Judah. (V. Gen. XXXVIII. 29. Ruth, IV. 18ff). ');">³²</span> or from Zerah.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' V. Gen. ibid. 30. ');">³³</span> If he descended from Perez he would be king, for a king breaks<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Heb. [H] 'to break', a play upon the rt. of Perez [H]. ');">³⁴</span>

<big><strong>גמ'</strong></big> מנא ה"מ א"ר יוחנן דאמר קרא (שמואל א יז, נה) וכראות שאול את דוד יוצא לקראת הפלשתי אמר אל אבנר שר הצבא בן מי זה הנער אבנר ויאמר אבנר חי נפשך המלך אם ידעתי ולא ידע ליה והכתיב (שמואל א טז, כא) ויאהבהו מאד ויהי לו נושא כלים אלא אאבוה קא משאיל

for himself a way and no one can hinder him. If, however, he is descended from Zerah he would only be an important man.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Zerah of the rt. [H] 'to shine'. ');">³⁵</span> What is the reason why he gave instructions that enquiry be made concerning him? — Because it is written, And Saul clad David with his apparel.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I Sam. XVII, 38, his apparel — [H]. ');">³⁶</span> being of the same size as his,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' [H] 'like his size', play upon [H] of the same rt. [H] ');">³⁷</span> and about Saul it is written, From his shoulders and upward he was higher than any of the people.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Ibid. IX, 2. His unusual stature impressed him. ');">³⁸</span>

ואביו לא ידע ליה והכתיב (שמואל א יז, יב) והאיש בימי שאול זקן בא באנשים ואמר רב ואיתימא רבי אבא זה ישי אבי דוד שנכנס באוכלוסא ויצא באוכלוסא

Doeg the Edomite then said to him,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' To Saul. ');">³⁹</span> 'Instead of enquiring whether he is fit to be king or not, enquire rather whether he is permitted to enter the assembly or not'! 'What is the reason'?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' That his eligibility to enter the congregation should be questioned. ');">⁴⁰</span> 'Because he is descended from Ruth the Moabitess'. Said Abner to him,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' To Doeg. ');">⁴¹</span> 'We learned: An Ammonite,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Deut. XXIII, 4. ');">⁴²</span>

ה"ק שאול אי מפרץ אתי אי מזרח אתי אי מפרץ אתי מלכא הוי שהמלך פורץ לעשות דרך ואין ממחין בידו אי מזרח אתי חשיבא בעלמא הוי

but not an Ammonitess; A Moabite,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Deut. XXIII, 4. ');">⁴²</span> but not a Moabitess!<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Supra 6a. The prohibition to enter into the congregation (v. ibid.). since the masculine gender was used in the text, applies to the males only ');">⁴³</span> But in that case<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' If the masculine gender excludes the women. ');">⁴⁴</span> a bastard<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Deut. XXIII, 3, [H] masc. ');">⁴⁵</span>

מ"ט אמר ליה שאל עליה דכתיב (שמואל א יז, לח) וילבש שאול את דוד מדיו כמדתו וכתיב ביה בשאול (שמואל א ט, ב) משכמו ומעלה גבוה מכל העם א"ל דואג האדומי עד שאתה משאיל עליו אם הגון הוא למלכות אם לאו שאל עליו אם ראוי לבא בקהל אם לאו מ"ט דקאתי מרות המואביה

would' imply: But not a female bastard?' — 'It is written mamzer [Which implies] anyone objectionable'.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Man or woman. [H] lit., 'anything strange', play upon [H]. ');">⁴⁶</span> 'Does then<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' If the masculine gender excludes the women. ');">⁴⁷</span> Egyptian<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Deut. XXIII, 8 [H] masc. ');">⁴⁸</span> exclude the Egyptian woman'? — 'Here<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' In the case of the Ammonite and Moabite. ');">⁴⁹</span>

א"ל אבנר תנינא עמוני ולא עמונית מואבי ולא מואבית אלא מעתה ממזר ולא ממזרת ממזר כתיב מום זר

it is different, since the reason for the Scriptural text is explicitly stated: Because they met you not with bread and with water;<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Ibid. 5. ');">⁵⁰</span> it is customary for a man to meet [wayfarers]; It is not, however, customary for a woman to meet [them]'.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The women were, therefore, excluded from the prohibition. ');">⁵¹</span> 'The men should have met the men and the women the women!' He<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Abner. ');">⁵²</span>

מצרי ולא מצרית שאני הכא דמפרש טעמא דקרא (דברים כג, ה) על אשר לא קדמו אתכם בלחם ובמים דרכו של איש לקדם ולא דרכה של אשה לקדם היה להם לקדם אנשים לקראת אנשים ונשים לקראת נשים אישתיק

remained silent, Thereupon. the King said.'<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' To Doeg. V. infra. ');">⁵³</span> 'Inquire thou whose son the stripling is'.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' 1 Sam. XVII, 56. ');">⁵⁴</span> Elsewhere he calls him youth;<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' [H] ibid. 55. ');">⁵⁵</span> and here<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' 1 Sam. XVII, 56. ');">⁵⁴</span>

מיד ויאמר המלך שאל אתה בן מי זה העלם התם קרי ליה נער הכא קרי ליה עלם הכי קא אמר ליה הלכה נתעלמה ממך צא ושאל בבית המדרש שאל אמרו ליה עמוני ולא עמונית מואבי ולא מואבית

he calls him, stripling!<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' [H]. ');">⁵⁶</span> — It is this that he implied, 'You have overlooked<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lit., 'it was concealed'; rt. [H] the same as that of [H] (v. supra n. 9). ');">⁵⁷</span> an <i>halachah</i>,' go and enquire at the college!' On enquiry, he was told: An Ammonite,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Deut. XXIII. 4. ');">⁵⁸</span> but not an Ammonitess; A Moabite,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Deut. XXIII. 4. ');">⁵⁸</span> but not a Moabitess.