Yevamot 156

והא אמר רב כהנא לא שנו אלא רובו אבל כולו חוצץ שאני עובר דהיינו רביתיה

surely [it may be retorted] R. Kahana stated: This applies only in respect of its greater part, but when the whole of it is effected a legal interposition is constituted!<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Even if the person does not mind the interposition. In the case of the embryo, surely, all its body remains untouched by the water. Why, then, should the child be exempt from the immersion! ');">¹</span> — The case of the embryo is different since its position<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' In utero, during pregnancy. ');">²</span> is that of its natural growth.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The mother's body is inseparable from it and cannot, therefore, be regarded as an interposition. ');">³</span>

כי אתא רבינא א"ר יוחנן באומות הלך אחר הזכר נתגיירו הלך אחר פגום שבשניהם באומות הלך אחר הזכר כדתניא מנין לאחד מן האומות שבא על הכנענית והוליד בן שאתה רשאי לקנותו בעבד שנאמר (ויקרא כה, מה) וגם מבני התושבים הגרים עמכם מהם תקנו

When Rabina<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' [Read R. Abin, v. Kid 67a]. ');">⁴</span> came, he stated in the name of R. Johanan: Among the other nations follow the male.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The child is ascribed to its father; though the mother may belong to a different gentile nation. V. infra. ');">⁵</span> If they are converted<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' To Judaism. ');">⁶</span>

יכול אפי' אחד מן הכנענים שבא על אחת מן האומות והוליד בן שאתה רשאי לקנותו בעבד ת"ל אשר הולידו בארצכם מן הנולדים בארצכם ולא מן הגרים בארצכם:

follow the more tainted of the two.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' V. infra. ');">⁷</span> 'Among the other nations follow the male, as it was taught: Whence is it deduced that if one of the other nations<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Other than the seven enumerated in Deut. VII, 1. ');">⁸</span> cohabited with a Canaanitish<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' General designation of the seven nations, (v. supra n. 11) the males of which were to be exterminated (ibid. XX, 16). ');">⁹</span>

נתגיירו הלך אחר פגום שבשניהם: במאי אילימא במצרי שנשא עמונית מאי פגום שבשניהם אית בה עמוני ולא עמונית אלא בעמוני שנשא מצרית אי זכר הוי שדייה בתר עמוני אי נקבה הוי שדייה בתר מצרית:

woman and begat a son, that son may be purchased as a slave?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' And, being ascribed to his father, is not subject to the law of extermination. V. supra n. 12. ');">¹⁰</span> It is said, Moreover of the children of the strangers<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., not of the seven nations who were the inhabitants of Canaan (v. supra n. 12). ');">¹¹</span> that do sojourn among you, of them may ye buy.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lev. XXV, 45. ');">¹²</span>

<big><strong>מתני׳</strong></big> ממזרין ונתינין אסורין ואיסורן איסור עולם אחד זכרים ואחד נקבות:

As it might have been assumed that even if one of the Canaanites<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' General designation of the seven nations, (v. supra n. 11) the males of which were to be exterminated (ibid. XX, 16). ');">⁹</span> had cohabited with one of the women of the other [gentile] nations<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Other than the seven enumerated in Deut. VII, 1. ');">⁸</span> and begat a son, you may buy that son as a slave, it was explicitly stated, That they have begotten in your land;<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lev. XXV, 45. ');">¹²</span>

<big><strong>גמ׳</strong></big> אמר ריש לקיש ממזרת לאחר עשרה דורות מותרת יליף עשירי עשירי מעמוני ומואבי מה להלן נקבות מותרות אף כאן נקבות מותרות

only from those who were begotten<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., whose mother that bore him, not his father, was a native of the land of Canaan. ');">¹³</span> in your land, but not from those who dwell in your land.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Whose father belonged to one of the seven nations of Canaan (v. supra n. 22). Thus it has been shewn that among the gentile nations also the child is ascribed to its father. ');">¹⁴</span> 'If they are converted, follow the more tainted of the two'. In what case? If it be suggested that it refers to an Egyptian<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Who until the third generation is ineligible to enter the congregation. ');">¹⁵</span>

אי מה להלן מיד אף כאן מיד כי אהני גזירה שוה מעשירי ואילך

who married an Ammonitess,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Who is eligible immediately after conversion. ');">¹⁶</span> how could the expression 'the more tainted of the two', be applicable when Scripture explicitly said, An Ammonite,'<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Deut. XXIII. 4. ');">¹⁷</span> but not an Ammonitess?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' She is not tainted at all! ');">¹⁸</span>

והאנן תנן ממזרים ונתינין אסורין ואיסורן איסור עולם אחד זכרים ואחד נקבות לא קשיא הא כמאן דאמר דון מינה ומינה

— Rather, the reference is to an Ammonite<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Who is ineligible for all time. (Ibid.). ');">¹⁹</span> who married an Egyptian wife.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Eligible only after three generations. ');">²⁰</span> If [the child of such a marriage] is a male, he is ascribed to the Ammonite;<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' His father, and is consequently forbidden for all time to enter the congregation. Had he been ascribed to his mother he would have been eligible after the third generation. ');">²¹</span>

הא כמאן דאמר דון מינה ואוקי באתרא

if it is a female, she is ascribed to the Egyptian.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Her mother (cf. supra n. 6). Had she been ascribed to her father she would have been eligible forthwith (cf. supra n. 4). ');">²²</span> <b><i>MISHNAH</i></b>. BASTARDS AND NETHINIM<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Pl. of nathin, v. Glos. ');">²³</span> ARE INELIGIBLE,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' To marry the daughter of an Israelite. ');">²⁴</span>

שאלו את רבי אליעזר ממזרת לאחר עשרה דרי מהו אמר להם מי יתן לי דור שלישי ואטהרנו אלמא קסבר ממזרא לא חיי וכן אמר רב הונא ממזרא לא חיי

AND THEIR INELIGIBILITY IS FOR ALL TIME, WHETHER THEY BE MALES OR FEMALES. <b><i>GEMARA</i></b>. Resh Lakish said: A woman bastard is eligible<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' To enter the congregation (cf. Deut. XXIII, 3), i.e., to marry an Israelite. ');">²⁵</span> after ten generations. This is derived from an analogy between tenth,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' In respect of the bastard (ibid.). ');">²⁶</span>

והא אנן תנן ממזרין אסורין ואיסורן איסור עולם אמר רבי זירא לדידי מפרשא לי מיניה דרב יהודה דידיע חיי דלא ידיע לא חיי דידיע ולא ידיע עד תלתא דרי חיי טפי לא חיי

and tenth<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' V. supra 69a. ');">²⁷</span> mentioned in respect of the Ammonite and the Moabite; as in the latter case the females are permitted<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' V. supra 69a. ');">²⁷</span> so are they permitted in the former case.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' [Rashi gives the fuller version. The Sifre: Just as 'tenth' stated with an Ammonite means for ever' (v. Deut. XXIII, 4). so does 'tenth' stated with mamzer mean 'for ever'. Consequently. as in the former. males (are forbidden) and not females, so in the latter]. ');">²⁸</span>

ההוא דהוי בשבבותיה דר' אמי אכריז עליה דממזרא הוה בכי ואזיל אמר ליה חיים נתתי לך

Should you suggest that as in the latter case eligibility begins forthwith so it does in the former case, [it may be replied] that the analogy can only be effective in respect of the generations after the tenth.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Since in the case of the bastard the prohibition of the first ten generations was explicitly stated and includes, as the term mamzer connotes (v. supra 76b), both men and women, whereas the prohibition after ten generations in the case of bastards is not stated explicitly but derived on the basis of analogy from an Ammonite, in respect of whom 'for ever' is explicitly stated. V. p. 532, n. 14. ');">²⁹</span> But, surely, we learned, BASTARDS AND NETHINIM ARE INELIGIBLE, AND THEIR INELIGIBILITY IS FOR ALL TIME, WHETHER THEY BE MALES OR FEMALES!<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' How, then, could Resh Lakish maintain that the bastard is permitted after the tenth generation? ');">³⁰</span> — This is no difficulty: One statement<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The statement of Resh Lakish. ');">³¹</span>

אמר רב חנא בר אדא נתינים דוד גזר עליהם שנאמר (שמואל ב כא, ב) ויקרא המלך לגבעונים ויאמר אליהם והגבעונים לא מבני ישראל המה וגו'

is in agreement with him who holds<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' V. Hul. 120b. ');">³²</span> that a deduction is carried through in all respects,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lit., 'judge from it and from it', i.e., all that applies to the case from which deduction is made is also applicable to the case deduced. As the case of the bastard is deduced from that of the Ammonite in one respect, it must also agree with it in all other respects, including eligibility of the females after the tenth generation, as Resh Lakish ruled. It is only in respect of the first ten generations which are explicitly forbidden in Scripture that deduction could not be made (cf. supra p. 532, n. 15). ');">³³</span> while the other<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The ruling in our Mishnah. ');">³⁴</span>

מאי טעמא גזר עלייהו דכתיב (שמואל ב כא, א) ויהי רעב בימי דוד שלש שנים שנה אחר שנה שנה ראשונה אמר להם שמא עובדי עבודת כוכבים יש בכם דכתיב (דברים יא, טז) ועבדתם אלהים אחרים והשתחויתם להם ועצר את השמים ולא יהיה מטר וגו' בדקו ולא מצאו

is in agreement with him who maintains<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' V. Hul. 120b. ');">³²</span> that a deduction is restricted by its original basis.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lit., 'judge from it and set it in its (original) place', i.e., the rules of the case deduced limit the scope of the deduction. Though the case of the bastard is deduced from that of the Ammonite in respect of forbidding the former, like the latter, for all time, the exclusion of the females, though applicable to the latter, does not apply to the former, and female bastards (cf. supra p. 532, n. 15) remain, therefore, forbidden for all time. ');">³⁵</span> R. Eliezer was asked: What [is the legal position<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' As regards entry into the congregation. ');">³⁶</span>

שניה אמר להם שמא עוברי עבירה יש בכם דכתיב (ירמיהו ג, ג) וימנעו רביבים ומלקוש לא היה ומצח אשה זונה היה לך וגו' בדקו ולא מצאו

of] a female bastard after ten generations? 'Were anyone to present to me', he replied, 'a third generation. I would declare it pure!' He is obviously of the opinion [that the stock of] a bastard does not survive.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' A third generation would never come into existence. ');">³⁷</span> So also did R. Huna state: A bastard's stock does not survive. Did we not learn, however, BASTARDS ARE INELIGIBLE, AND THEIR INELIGIBILITY IS FOR ALL TIME? — R. Zera replied: It was explained to me by Rab Judah that those who are known<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' As bastards. ');">³⁸</span> survive;<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' There being no danger of intermarriage with them or their descendants. ');">³⁹</span>

שלישית אמר להם שמא פוסקי צדקה ברבים יש בכם ואין נותנין דכתיב (משלי כה, יד) נשיאים ורוח וגשם אין איש מתהלל במתת שקר בדקו ולא מצאו

those who are not known<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' As bastards. ');">³⁸</span> do not survive; and those who are partly known and partly unknown survive for three generations but no longer. A certain man once lived in the neighbourhood of R. Ammi. and the latter made a public announcement that he was a bastard. As the other was bewailing the action,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lit., 'and wept'. ');">⁴⁰</span>

אמר אין הדבר תלוי אלא בי מיד ויבקש דוד את פני ה' מאי היא אמר ריש לקיש ששאל באורים ותומים

[the Master] said to him: I have given you life.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Cf. supra. text and p. 533, nn. 9 and 10. ');">⁴¹</span> R. Hana b. Adda stated: David issued the decree of prohibition<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' To enter the assembly. ');">⁴²</span> against the nethinim,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Pl. of nathin. V. Glos. ');">⁴³</span>

מאי משמע א"ר אלעזר אתיא פני פני כתיב הכא ויבקש דוד את פני ה' וכתיב התם (במדבר כז, כא) ושאל לו במשפט האורים לפני ה'

for it is said, And the king called the Gibeonites,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., nethinim. Cf. supra n. 4. ');">⁴⁴</span> and said unto them-now the Gibeonites were not of the children of Israel etc.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' II Sam. XXI, 2, the last six words implying that they were excluded from the congregation. ');">⁴⁵</span> Why did he issue the decree against them? — Because it is written. And there was a famine in the days of David three years. year after year.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Ibid. 1. ');">⁴⁶</span>

ויאמר ה' אל שאול ואל בית הדמים על אשר המית הגבעונים אל שאול שלא נספד כהלכה ואל בית הדמים על אשר המית הגבעונים וכי היכן מצינו בשאול שהמית הגבעונים אלא מתוך שהרג נוב עיר הכהנים שהיו מספיקין להם מים ומזון מעלה עליו הכתוב כאילו הרגן

In the first year he said to them, 'It is possible that there are idolaters among you, for it is written, And serve other gods, and worship them&nbsp;… and he will shut up the heaven, so that there shall be no rain etc.'<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Deut. XI. 16f. ');">⁴⁷</span> They instituted enquiries but could not discover any idolaters. In the second year he said to them, 'There may be transgressors among you, for it is written, Therefore the showers have been withheld and there hath been no latter rain; yet thou hadst a harlot's forehead etc.'<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Jer. III, 3. ');">⁴⁸</span> Enquiries were made but none was found. In the third year he said to them, 'There might be among you men who announce specified sums for charity in public but do not give them, as it is written, As vapours and wind without rain, so is he that boasteth himself of a false gift'.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Prov. XXV, 14. ');">⁴⁹</span>

קא תבע אל שאול שלא נספד כהלכה וקא תבע על אשר המית הגבעונים אין דאמר ריש לקיש מאי דכתיב (צפניה ב, ג) בקשו את ה' כל ענוי ארץ אשר משפטו פעלו באשר משפטו שם פעלו

Enquiries were made and none was found. 'The matter', he concluded, 'depends entirely upon me; Immediately, he sought the face of the Lord.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Ibid. 1. ');">⁴⁶</span> What does this mean? — Resh Lakish explained: He enquired of the Urim and Tummim.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' V. Glos. ');">⁵⁰</span> How is this inferred? R. Eleazar replied: It is arrived at by an analogy between two occurrences of the expression of 'countenance of'; for here it is written, And David sought the countenance of the Lord,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Ibid. 1. ');">⁴⁶</span>

אמר דוד שאול נפקו להו

and elsewhere it is written, Who shall enquire for him by the judgment of the Urim before the countenance of the Lord.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Num. XXVII. 21. ');">⁵¹</span> And the Lord said: 'It is for Saul and his bloody house, because he put to death the Gibeonites'.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' II Sam. XXI, 1. ');">⁵²</span> 'For Saul', because he was not mourned for in a proper manner; 'and his bloody house, because he put to death the Gibeonites'. Where, however, do we find that Saul 'put to death the Gibeonites'! The truth is that, as he killed the inhabitants of Nob, the city of the priests who were supplying them<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The Gibeonites who, as hewers of wood and drawers of water for the altar (v. Josh. IX, 23, 27), were maintained by the priests. ');">⁵³</span> with water and food, Scripture regards it as if he himself had killed them. Justice is demanded for Saul because he was not properly mourned for, and justice is demanded because he put to death the Gibeonites?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' A simultaneous claim in his favour and against him! ');">⁵⁴</span> — Yes; for Resh Lakish stated: What is meant by the Scriptural text, Seek ye the Lord, all ye humble of the earth, that have executed His ordinance?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Zeph. II, 3. [H]. ');">⁵⁵</span> Where there is his ordinance,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' [H] lit., 'his judgment', for Saul's guilt. ');">⁵⁶</span> there are also his executions.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Read [H] his work, sc. Saul's good deeds. ');">⁵⁷</span> David said: As to Saul, there have already elapsed