Yoma 158

הא כביצה בעי סוכה ואי סלקא דעתך כותבת הגסה שאמרו יתירה מכביצה השתא שתי כותבות בלא גרעינן לא הוו כביצה כותבת הגסה וגרעינתה מי הוי יתירה מכביצה אמר ר' ירמיה אין שתי כותבות בלא גרעינתן לא הוו כביצה כותבת הגסה וגרעינתה הוי יתירה מכביצה אמר רב פפא היינו דאמרי אינשי תרי קבי דתמרי חד קבא דקשייתא וסריח

This [implies that] if it were as big as an egg it would require [to be eaten] in the Sukkah, and if the thought should occur to you that the big date referred to is larger in size than an egg - now if two dates<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Which R. Gamaliel had eaten in the Sukkah and in connection with which it was stated 'not that the law required it', which means they were less than the legal minimum - one egg.');">¹</span> without kernels are not even as large as one egg, how could a large date with its kernel be bigger in size than an egg? - R'Jeremiah said: Yes, two dates without their kernel are not as large as an egg, but a large date with its kernel is bigger than an egg.

רבא אמר התם היינו טעמא משום דהוו ליה פירי ופירי לא בעו סוכה מיתיבי אמר רבי כשהיינו לומדים תורה אצל רבי אלעזר בן שמוע הביאו לפנינו תאנים וענבים ואכלנום אכילת עראי חוץ לסוכה אכילת עראי אין אכילת קבע לא אימא אכלנום כאכילת עראי חוץ לסוכה

R'Papa said: Therefore do people say: Two kabs of dates contain as much as one kab of kernels, with a bit left over.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Because the kernels are larger in bulk than the dates.');">²</span> Raba said: The reason there was that they were fruits, and fruits do not require [to be eaten in] a Sukkah.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The argument from the Sukkah is misleading, because fruits, no matter what their quantity, are not required to be eaten in the Sukkah.');">³</span>

איבע"א אכלנום אכילת קבע ואכלנו פת אכילת עראי בהדייהו חוץ לסוכה

An objection was raised: Rabbi said, 'When we were studying the Torah with R'Eleazar B'Shammua,'figs and wine-berries were brought before us and we ate them outside the Sukkah as an incidental meal'. That means only as an incidental meal [is it permitted to eat fruit] outside the Sukkah, but as a proper meal not?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Which would signify, as against R. Papa, that fruits in proper quantity would have to be eaten in the Sukkah.');">⁴</span>

לימא מסייע ליה לפיכך אם השלים במיני תרגימא יצא ואי סלקא דעתך פירי בעו סוכה ליתני פירות מאי מיני תרגימא פירות ואיבעית אימא באתרא דלא שכיחי פירי

- Say: 'We ate them as [if we had partaken of] an incidental meal outside the Sukkah'.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Because they were fruits, no matter how many of them, they would be considered a mere incidental meal, permissible to be had outside the Sukkah.');">⁵</span> Or, if you like say: 'We ate them for a regular meal and we ate bread with them outside the Sukkah [in a quantity small enough to be considered only for] an incidental meal'.

רב זביד אמר כותבת הגסה שאמרו חסרה מכביצה דתנן בית שמאי אומרים שאור בכזית חמץ בככותבת

Shall we say that the following supports his view: 'Therefore if he made up the number [of meals] by means of delicacies, he has done his duty'.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' V. Suk. 28a. R. Eliezer holds fourteen to be the required minimum number of meals that must be taken in the Sukkah during the feast of Tabernacles. If someone now made up the number of prescribed meals by means of delicacies etc.');">⁶</span> Now if you should think that fruits must be eaten in the Sukkah, he should have stated 'fruits' [instead of 'delicacies']?

והוינן בה מ"ט דב"ש נכתוב רחמנא חמץ ולא בעי שאור ואנא אמינא ומה חמץ שאין חמוצו קשה אסור בכזית שאור שחמוצו קשה לא כל שכן מדפלגינהו רחמנא לימדה לך שיעורו של זה לא כשיעורו של זה שאור בכזית וחמץ בככותבת

What does he mean by 'delicacies'? 'Fruits'. Or, if you like, say: [T reference is to] a place wherein fruits are not to be found.

ואי ס"ד כותבת הגסה שאמרו יתירה מכביצה מכדי ב"ש אשיעורא דנפיש מכזית קא מהדרי ליתני כביצה ואי נמי כי הדדי נינהו ניתני כביצה אלא לאו שמע מינה כותבת פחותה מכביצה

R'Zebid said: The big date whereof they spoke is smaller in size than an egg, for we learned: Beth Shammai say: 'Of leaven as much as an olive, or leavened bread as much as a date'.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The minimum, the possession of which during Passover causes one to transgress the prohibition. Ex. XII, 19: Seven days shall there be no leaven found in your houses, and XIII, 7: And there shall be no leavened bread seen with thee, neither shall there be leaven seen with thee, in all thy borders. V. Bez. 2a.');">⁷</span> And thereon we were debating; what is the reason of Beth Shammai?

ממאי דילמא לעולם אימא לך כותבת הגסה שאמרו יתירה מכביצה הא סתמא כביצה ואי נמי כי הדדי נינהו וחדא מינייהו נקט

[And were given this]: Let the Divine Law write about hamez [leavened bread] alone, without needing a reference to leaven, and I would say: If the eating of an olive-size of hamez the leaven whereof is not so intensive is forbidden, how much more is such size forbidden in the case of leaven which is so much more leaven! But since the Divine Law nevertheless mentioned them separately, it teaches you that the minimum size of the one is not the same as of the other, viz. , in the case o leaven it is that of an olive, in the case of hamez that of a date. Now if you should think that the big date mentioned is bigger than an egg, since Beth Shammai are looking for a quantity bigger than an olive, let them teach that of an egg; and even if the two be of the same size let them teach 'that of an egg'.

אלא מהכא עד כמה מזמנין עד כזית דברי ר' מאיר רבי יהודה אומר עד כביצה במאי קא מיפלגי ר' מאיר סבר ואכלת זו אכילה ושבעת זו שתיה ואכילה בכזית ור' יהודה סבר (דברים ח, י) ואכלת ושבעת אכילה שיש בה שביעה ואי זה זה כביצה

Hence one must infer therefrom that the date spoken of is smaller than an egg! How does that follow? In truth I may say to you, perhaps, that the big date referred to is bigger than an egg, but the normal one is as big as an egg, and (even though they be of the same size)<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' [The bracketed words are best left out with var. lec.].');">⁸</span>

ואי ס"ד כותבת הגסה שאמרו יתירה מכביצה השתא כביצה שבועי משבעא דעתא לא מיתבא אלא לאו שמע מינה כותבת הגסה שאמרו פחות מכביצה כביצה משבעא ככותבת מיתבא דעתיה

Beth Shammai just mentions one of the two! Rather, may one infer it<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' That the big date spoken of is less than an egg.');">⁹</span> from here: 'How much must one have eaten to be obliged to make an appointment for common [saying of] grace [after meals]?

תניא רבי אומר

The size of an olive, according to R'Meir. According to R'Judah: The size of an egg'.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Ber. 45a.');">¹⁰</span> [And in connection therewith it was said:] Wherein are they differing? R'Meir holds: And thou shalt eat,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Deut. VIII, 10.');">¹¹</span> refers to eating.' And be satisfied',<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Deut. VIII, 10.');">¹¹</span> refers to drinking. And the minimum of 'eating' is the size of an olive whereas R'Judah holds: 'And thou shalt eat and be satisfied', i.e., an eating which brings satisfaction, and that is [at least as much] as an egg. And if you should think that the big date referred to is bigger than an egg - how if the quantity of an egg even satisfied one, would it not help one to come to? Thence the inference is proper that the big date referred to is smaller than an egg: the quantity of an egg will satisfy one, the size of a big date will help one to come to. It was taught: Rabbi says,