Zevachim 174

שקיבלו פסולין וזרקו את דמו מאי לאו שקיבלו פסולין וזרקו פסולין

[Or] where unfit [persons] received and sprinkled the blood.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' V. supra 84a.');">¹</span>

לא שקיבלו פסולין א"נ שזרקו פסולין

Surely that means, where unfit [persons] received and sprinkled the blood.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The 'and' (Heb. 7) being conjunctive. This implies that only then do they not descend once they ascended, which further implies that they may not ascend in the first place. Hence, if unfit persons received the blood (naturally, in a service vessel) whilst fit persons sprinkled it, they may ascend (be offered) in the first place, and that must be because the vessels sanctified the blood to permit its sprinkling at the outset.');">²</span>

אויר מזבח כמזבח דמי או לא ת"ש כשם שהמזבח מקדש כך כבש מקדש

- No: [it may mean] that unfit [persons] received it or unfit persons sprinkled the blood.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' And we are informed that even then the limbs do not descend once they ascended, notwithstanding that they were disqualified by the sprinkling.');">³</span>

ואי אמרת אויר מזבח לאו כמזבח דמי אויר כבש נמי לאו ככבש דמי היכי מסיק ליה מכבש למזבח הוה ליה ירוד

The scholars asked:<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Emended text (Sh.M.) .');">⁴</span>

דנגד ליה והא אויר יש בין כבש למזבח רובו לכבש ככבש רובו למזבח כמזבח

Is the air-space above the altar as the altar, or not?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' If one suspends disqualified limbs above the altar, is it as though they are on the altar itself and must not be removed, or not?');">⁵</span>

תיפשוט מהא הא דבעי רמי בר חמא יש חיבור לעולין או לא תיפשוט דיש חיבור הא לא קשיא תיפשוט

- Come and hear: JUST AS THE ALTAR SANCTIFIES SO DOES THE ASCENT SANCTIFY.

מתקיף לה רבא בר רב חנן ואי אמרת אויר מזבח כמזבח דמי עולת העוף דפסלה במחשבה היכי משכחת לה

Now, if you say that the airspace above the altar is not as the altar, then the air-space above the ascent too is not as the ascent; how then can one carry it up from the ascent to the altar, seeing that it is as having descended?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' For if it is not as the ascent, when he lifts it up to carry to the altar it is as though he had taken it down, and we learnt that if it descended it must not re-ascend.');">⁶</span>

הא קלטה מזבח

- He drags it.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Up to the altar without lifting it up from the ascent.');">⁷</span>

מתקיף לה רב שימי בר אשי אלמה לא משכחת לה כגון דאמר הריני מולקה על מנת להורידה למחר ולהעלותה ולהקטירה

But there was a gap between the ascent and the altar?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' V. supra 62b. And when the limbs reach the gap, they are as though taken down.');">⁸</span>

הניחא לרבא דאמר לינה מועלת בראש המזבח אלא לרבה דאמר אין לינה מועלת בראש המזבח ליתא למחשבתו

- When the greater part of it [the limb] is nearer the ascent, it is as thou it were [on] the ascent, and when the greater part of it is nearer the altar,it is as though it were on the alta Then from this you can solve Rami B'Hama's question, [viz.]: Is there a connective in [limbs which] ascend the altar or not?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' If the smaller part of a limb springs off, is it considered as still attached to the whole, and so must be replaced, or not?');">⁹</span>

לרבה נמי משכחת לה כגון דאמר הריני מולקה על מנת להורידה קודם עמוד השחר ולהעלותה לאחר עמוד השחר

Solve that there is a connective?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' For otherwise each portion of the limb becomes disqualified as it enters the gap between the altar and the ascent.');">¹⁰</span>

להך גיסא מיהא תיפשוט דאויר מזבח כמזבח דמי דאי ס"ד אויר מזבח לאו כמזבח דמי

- That is no difficulty: Then solve it! Raba son of R'Hanan demurred: If you say that the air-space above the altar is as the altar, how is it possible for a burnt-offering of a bird to be disqualified through an [illegitimate] intention; surely the altar has received it?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The neck of a burnt-offering of a bird was pinched (v. Lev. I, 15) on top of the altar, i.e., in the air-space above the altar. Now if the priest actually kept it suspended in the air-space above the altar until the next day it would be fit then for ritual burning, for disqualified sacrifices do not descend once they ascended (i.e., even if linah does disqualify when the sacrifice is on the altar) . Since then it is fit for burning on the morrow, why should the intention to burn it on the morrow disqualify it, seeing that at the very moment that it is killed it is as though laid on the altar?');">¹¹</span> R'Shimi B'Ashi demurred: Why not? It is possible e.g. , where he declared: Behold, I pinch it intending to take it off to-morrow [from the altar], then carry it up again and burn it.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' This would be forbidden, as if it descended it does not re-ascend. Hence the intention too can disqualify it.');">¹²</span> ¹³ - According to Rabbah too it is possible e.g. if he declared: Behold, I pinch it with the intention of taking it down before dawn and taking it up again after dawn"&gt;.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' If the sacrifice were actually on the ground at dawn it would be disqualified, and so the intention too disqualifies it.');">¹⁴</span> At all events, you can solve [the question] in the other direction, viz. , that the air-space of the altar is as the altar,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' This is the conclusion of R. Shimi b. Ashi's argument: though R. Hanan's reasoning is faulty, yet one can argue in the reverse direction.');">¹⁵</span> for should you think that the air-space of an altar is not as the altar,