Zevachim 209

בתר רוב אבר שדינן ליה והא נפק ליה או דלמא בתר בהמה שדינן ליה תיקו

after its greater part and that indeed has gone out;<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' And by adding this lesser part, the greater part of the animal has now gone out.');">¹</span> or perhaps we cast it after the animal?

רבה בר רב הונא מתני לה בגברי במתעסקין בו חמשה בני אדם ונפקו תלתא ופשו להו תרי מאי בתר רוב מתעסקין אזלינן או בתר בהמה אזלינן תיקו

The question stands over. Rabbah B'R'Huna recited [this passage] in reference to men.

בעי רבי אלעזר פרים ושעירים הנשרפים שיצאו וחזרו מהו מי אמרינן כיון דנפקי להו איטמו להו או דלמא כיון דהדור הדור

Thus: five men were engaged on it,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' In carrying out its carcass.');">²</span> three had gone out and two were left [within].

אמר ר' אבא בר ממל ת"ש היו סובלין אותן במוטות הראשונים יצאו חוץ לחומת העזרה והאחרונים לא יצאו הראשונים שיצאו חוץ לחומת העזרה מטמאין בגדים והאחרונים אין מטמאין בגדים עד שיצאו ואי ס"ד כיון דנפקי להו איטמו הנך דאיכא גואי ליטמא

What [is the law]? Do we follow the majority of those engaged on it;<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Hence even those within are regarded as without.');">³</span>

אמר רבינא ותסברא הא בעינא (ויקרא יד, ח) ואחר יבא אל המחנה וליכא

or perhaps we go by the animal? The question stands over.

אלא רבי אלעזר היכי בעי לה כגון דנקיטי לה בבקולסי

R'Eleazar asked: What if the bullocks which were burnt and the goats which were burnt were carried out and then brought back:<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' It is assumed that he asked whether the garments of the men who carried it out are defiled.');">⁴</span> do we say, since they [the carcasses] went out, they are unclean; or perhaps, since they returned, they returned?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' And are regarded as not having gone out at all.');">⁵</span>

ת"ר פרים ופרה ושעיר המשתלח המשלח השורפן והמוציאן מטמא בגדים והן עצמן אין מטמאין בגדים אבל מטמאין אוכלין ומשקין דברי ר"מ וחכ"א פרה ופרים מטמאין אוכלין ומשקין שעיר המשתלח אינו מטמא שהוא חי והחי אינו מטמא אוכלין ומשקין

- Said R'Abba B'Memmel, Come and hear: IF THEY WERE CARRYING THEM ON STAVES, AND THOSE IN FRONT HAD PASSED WITHOUT THE WALL OF THE TEMPLE COURT WHILE THOSE IN THE REAR HAD NOT [YET] GONE OUT, THOSE IN FRONT DEFILE THEIR GARMENTS. WHILE THOSE IN THE REAR DO NOT DEFILE THEIR GARMENTS.

בשלמא לרבי מאיר כדתנא דבי ר' ישמעאל דתנא דבי רבי ישמעאל (ויקרא יא, לז) על כל זרע זרוע

UNTIL THY GO OUT. Now, if you should think that as soon as they go out, they [the garments] are defiled, then let those who are within also be defiled?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' For the defilement of garments depends on the going out of the carcass, not on that of the men (infra b) . Hence those within do not defile their garments only because if the carcass is carried back within, even the garments of the men without remain clean.');">⁶</span>

מה זרעים שאין סופן ליטמא טומאה חמורה וצריכין הכשר אף כל שאין סופן ליטמא טומאה חמורה צריכין הכשר יצתה נבלת עוף טהור שסופה ליטמא טומאה חמורה ואין צריכה הכשר

Said Rabina:<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Rashi and BAH read: Raba.');">⁷</span> Now, is that logical?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Do you really think that this proof is valid?');">⁸</span>

אלא לרבנן אי אית להו דתנא דבי רבי ישמעאל אפילו שעיר המשתלח אי לית ליה אפי' פרה ופרים מנלן

Surely we require, and after that he may come into the camp,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lev. XIV, 8. 'After that' means after he washes his garments, which were unclean. This shews that Scripture speaks of one who is without (he cannot come in otherwise) , and only then does he defile his garments.');">⁹</span> which is absent.

כי אתא רב דימי אמר אמרי במערבא צריכין הכשר טומאה ממקום אחר

Then in which circumstances does R'Eleazar's question arise?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' According to this, it obviously depends on whether the men have gone out.');">¹⁰</span> - Where they seized it with crooks.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' While standing outside, the carcass having been carried out once and taken in again. Are the garments of these men (if they are not the same as those who carried it out the first time) unclean, or not?');">¹¹</span>

בעי רבי אלעזר פרים ושעירים הנשרפים מהו שיטמאו אוכלין ומשקין בפנים כבחוץ מחוסר יציאה כמחוסר מעשה דמי או לא

Our Rabbis taught: The bullocks [which are burnt], the [red] heifer, and the goat that is sent away:<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' V. Lev. XVI, 21 seq.');">¹²</span> he that leads [the last] away, he who burns them, and he who carries [the first-named] out [of the Temple court], defile their garments.

בתר דבעיא הדר פשטה מחוסר יציאה כמחוסר מעשה דמי

They themselves, however, do not defile garments;<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The carcasses do not defile any garments which they touch.');">¹³</span> but they defile foodstuffs and liquids: these are the words of R'Meir.

בעא מיניה רבי אבא בר שמואל מרבי חייא בר אבא נבלת עוף טהור לר' מאיר מהו שיטמא בכזית

But the Sages maintain: The [red] heifer and the bullocks defile foodstuffs and liquids, [whereas] the goat which is sent away does not defile, because it is alive, and a live thing does not defile foodstuffs and liquids. As for R'Meir, it is well, [as his view] agrees with the teaching of the School of R'Ishmael.

דמחתא לארעא לא תיבעי לך דנקיט בפומיה לא תיבעי לך כי תיבעי לך דנקיט ליה בידיה מחוסר קריבה כמחוסר מעשה דמי או לא

For the School of R'Ishmael taught: Upon any sowing seed which is to be sown:<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lev. XI, 37.');">¹⁴</span> as seeds, which will not ultimately defile with stringent uncleanness, require a qualification [heksher], so all which will not ultimately defile with stringent uncleanness require a qualification.

(בתר דבעיא הדר פשטה)

Thus the carcass of a clean bird is excluded: since It will eventually defile with stringent uncleanness, it does not require a qualification.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The whole Scriptural passage reads: And if aught of their carcass (sc. of unclean 'swarming things' - sherazim) fall upon any sowing seed which is to be sown, it is clean. But if water be put upon the seed, and aught of their carcass fall thereon, it is unclean unto you. Thus 'seed' is a foodstuff which requires a 'qualification' to become unclean, viz., water must first fall upon it, and it must be touched by a sherez (q.v. Glos.) . When it is unclean, it can in turn defile only eatables and liquids, but not human beings or utensils or garments; thus its defilement is said to be light, not stringent. The School of R. Ishmael deduces that only such require a 'qualification' before they defile; but those which will defile human beings etc. do not require any qualification. The carcass (nebelah, q.v. Glos.) of a clean bird (i.e., one permitted for food) defiles the garments of the person who eats it; therefore it does not require a 'qualification'. Now, the red heifer, the goat that is sent away, and the bullocks which are burnt, will eventually defile garments; hence they do not need any qualification. and so defile even while they are alive.');">¹⁵</span> But as for the Rabbis, if they accept the teaching of the school of R'Ishmael, even the goat that is sent away too [should defile]; while if they reject it, how do they know [that] the [red] heife and the bullocks [defile foodstuffs]?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Seeing that Scripture speaks only of garments.');">¹⁶</span> When R'Dimi came,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' V. p. 301. n. 7.');">¹⁷</span> he said: In the West [Palestine] they said: They need a qualification for defilement from a foreign source.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The School of R. Ishmael meant that whatever will not eventually defile with stringent defilement needs a qualification from a foreign source, i.e., it must first touch a sherez or nebelah, whereas that which will eventually defile in this manner e.g. the red heifer, need not first touch a sherez or nebelah, but defiles foodstuffs and liquids automatically. Nevertheless, it must be such as is capable of defiling in general, and we find no instance of a living creature defiling.');">¹⁸</span> R'Eleazar asked: Can the bullocks which are burnt and the goats which are burnt defile foodstuffs and liquids within [the Temple court] as without?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' According to the foregoing, they defile foodstuffs because they defile with stringent defilement (sc. garments) . But that is only');">¹⁹</span> When it lacks going out, is it as though it lacks an action,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Which is necessary before it can defile.');">²⁰</span> or not? After he asked, he answered it: That which lacks going out is as though it lacked an action.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Hence they do not defile foodstuffs within.');">²¹</span> R'Abba B'Samuel<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Sh. M. emends: R. Abba b. Memmel.');">²²</span> asked R'Hiyya B'Abba: According to R'Meir, can as much as an olive of the nebelah of a clean bird defile?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Foodstuffs and liquids. - There is no question on the view of the Rabbis, as they maintain that before anything can defile it must conform to the general laws which govern it, and as much as an olive of this nebelah can defile only when it is in a man's throat. R. Meir, however, holds that whatever can eventually defile with a stringent defilement need not be fit for defilement. Hence on his view the question arises,');">²³</span> When it is lying on the ground, there is no question.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' It certainly does not defile, for it may never reach the stage of stringent defilement, as perhaps none will take it in his mouth.');">²⁴</span> When one has it in his mouth, there is no question.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' It certainly does defile, for it has already reached that stage.');">²⁵</span> The question arises when one is holding it in his hand.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' And about to eat it.');">²⁶</span> [Do we say:] Since it was not yet taken [to his mouth], it is as though it lacked an action,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' To render it capable of defilement.');">²⁷</span> or not? [After he asked, he solved it]:<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Sh.M. deletes bracketed words. Rashi reads: said he to him.');">²⁸</span>