Chullin 184

Chapter 184

א שאין כותבין כתובה לזכרים ואחת שאין שוקלין בשר המת במקולין ואחת שמכבדין את התורה:
1 they do not draw up a kethubah document for males,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Although they are suspected of indecent practices and sodomy they do not go to that length of writing a 'marriage' deed for the purpose. vcu,f here means a marriage deed; for specific meanings v. Introduction to Keth., Sonc. ed., p. XI, n. 1.');"><sup>1</sup></span>
ב ואינו נוהג בעוף: והא קא חזינן דאית ליה אית ליה ולא עגיל
2 they do not weigh flesh of the dead in the market,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Although they eat human flesh they do not sell it openly in the market. Rashi also suggests: They do not sell the flesh of an animal that had not been slain but had died a natural death.');"><sup>2</sup></span> and (iii) they respect the Torah. IT DOES NOT APPLY TO BIRDS, [BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO SPOON-SHAPED HIP].
ג בעי רבי ירמיה אית ליה לעוף ועגיל אית ליה לבהמה ולא עגיל מאי בתר דידיה אזלינן או בתר מיניה אזלינן תיקו:
3 But we see that they have it? - They have it indeed, but it is not convex.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The muscles around the upper part of the hip bone of a bird are flat and not rounded and raised like a ball. V. supra p. 500, n. 2.');"><sup>3</sup></span> R'Jeremiah raised the question. What if a bird happened to have it convex, or if an animal happened to have it [flat and] not convex?
ד ונוהג בשליל: אמר שמואל וחלבו מותר לדברי הכל
4 Do we consider the particular creature by itself, or do we consider the class to which it belongs? - It is undecided. IT ALSO APPLIES TO A FOETUS. Samuel said: The ruling: ITS FAT IS PERMITTED, is agreed to by all.
ה חלבו דמאי אילימא דשליל והא מיפלג פליגי ביה דתניא נוהג בשליל וחלבו אסור דברי רבי מאיר רבי יהודה אומר אינו נוהג בשליל וחלבו מותר
5 What fat? Should you say, that of a foetus, but this is a matter of dispute. For it has been taught:<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' V. supra 74b; Tosef. Hul. VII.');"><sup>4</sup></span> It applies to a foetus, and its<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Sc. of a foetus.');"><sup>6</sup></span> fat is forbidden: so R'Meir. R'Judah says: It does not apply to a foetus, and its<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Sc. of a foetus.');"><sup>6</sup></span>
ו ואמר ר' אלעזר אמר ר' אושעיא מחלוקת בבן תשעה חי והלך ר"מ לשיטתו ורבי יהודה לשיטתו
6 fat is permitted. And R'Eleazar said in the name of R'Oshaia: They differ in the case of a nine months' fetus which was [extracted] alive [from its dam's womb]; R'Meir therefore ruling according to his principle<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' R. Meir holds that a nine months' foetus which was extracted alive out of the womb is not rendered permitted by the slaughtering of its dam but must be slaughtered itself and is in every respect like an ordinary animal, hence its fat is forbidden and also the sciatic nerve.');"><sup>7</sup></span> and R'Judah according to his.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' R. Judah maintains that this foetus is permitted by the slaughtering of its dam, and the whole of it may be eaten, the fat as well as the sciatic nerve.');"><sup>8</sup></span>
ז ואלא חלבו דגיד הא מיפלג פליגי בה דתניא גיד הנשה מחטט אחריו בכל מקום שהוא וחותך שמנו מעיקרו דברי ר"מ רבי יהודה אומר גוממו עם השופי
7 And should you say, the fat of the nerve, but there too there is a dispute about it. For it has been taught: As to the sciatic nerve, one must follow it up as far as it goes and must cut away the fat thereof at its source;<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Wherever the fat is found, in all its ramifications.');"><sup>9</sup></span> so R'Meir. R'Judah says: One merely cuts it away from off the cap of the bone!<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., only that fat which is in close proximity to the nerve must be cut away, and this only for appearance sake, since strictly the whole of the fat is permitted.');"><sup>10</sup></span>
ח לעולם חלבו דגיד ומודה שמואל דלר"מ מדרבנן אסור דתניא ושמנו מותר וישראל קדושים נהגו בו איסור מאי לאו ר"מ היא דאמר מותר מן התורה ואסור מדרבנן
8 - In truth, it refers to the fat of the nerve; Samuel however agrees that according to R'Meir it is forbidden by Rabbinic decree. For it has been taught: Its fat is permitted, but Israel being a holy people have regarded it as forbidden.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Pes. ');"><sup>11</sup></span> And presumably the author [of this Baraitha] is R'Meir who maintains that by the law of the Torah it is permitted but is forbidden by Rabbinic decree! But whence this? Perhaps it is R'Judah, but according to R'Meir it is forbidden even by the law of the Torah! - You cannot think of this; for it has been taught: As to the sciatic nerve, one must follow it up as far as it goes, and its fat is permitted.
ט ממאי דילמא רבי יהודה היא אבל לרבי מאיר מדאורייתא נמי אסיר
9 Now whom have you heard say that it is necessary to 'follow it up? ' R'Meir; and here it expressly says, its fat is permitted.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Accordingly R. Meir's view is that strictly by the law of the Torah it is permitted, but it is only forbidden by Rabbinic decree. This then was the purport of Samuel's teaching.');"><sup>12</sup></span> R'Isaac B'Samuel B'Martha said in the name of Rab: The Torah forbade only the branch nerves of it.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Only the nerves that branch off the main sciatic nerve are prohibited, for these are tender and could impart a flavour into the substance that is cooked with it, but the actual sciatic nerve is hard like wood and is not forbidden. vh,uuf');"><sup>13</sup></span>
י לא ס"ד דתניא גיד הנשה מחטט אחריו בכל מקום שהוא ושמנו מותר מאן שמעת ליה דאית ליה חטיטה ר"מ וקאמר שמנו מותר
10 Ulla said, [Although] it is like wood the Torah makes one liable for it.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' But the branch nerves are permitted. As to whether or not they are prohibited Rabbinically v. Tosaf. s.v. .');"><sup>14</sup></span> Abaye said: The view of Ulla is the more probable, for R'Shesheth said in the name of R'Assi. The veins in fat are forbidden but one is not liable [to the penalty of Kareth] on account of them. It is evident therefore that the Divine Law forbade the fa but not the veins, likewise the Divine Law forbade the nerve but not the branch nerves. [To turn to] the main text.
יא אמר רב יצחק בר שמואל בר מרתא אמר רב לא אסרה תורה אלא קנוקנות שבו עולא אמר עץ הוא והתורה חייבה עליו
11 R'Shesheth said in the name of R'Assi: The veins in fat are forbidden but one not liable on account of them'. The veins in the kidney are forbidden but one is not liable on account of them. As to the white substance of the kidney<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Which is in the middle of the kidney but goes deep into the actual kidney.');"><sup>15</sup></span> there is a difference of opinion between Rabbi and R'Hiyya, one forbids it and the other permits it.
יב אמר אביי כוותיה דעולא מסתברא דאמר רב ששת אמר רב אסי חוטין שבחלב אסורין ואין חייבין עליהן אלמא חלב אמר רחמנא ולא חוטין הכא נמי גיד אמר רחמנא ולא קנוקנות
12 Rabbah used to scrape it all away.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Even that which is deep in the kidney.');"><sup>16</sup></span> R'Johanan also used to scrape it all away. R'Assi used to cut away only the surface thereof.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., only that portion which is in the middle of the kidney but not that which is covered up by the kidney.');"><sup>17</sup></span> Abaye said: The view of R'Assi is the more probable, for R'Abba said in the name of Rab Judah on the authority of Samuel,
יג גופא אמר רב ששת אמר רב אסי חוטין שבחלב אסורין ואין חייבין עליהן שבכוליא אסורין ואין חייבין עליהן לובן כוליא רבי ורבי חייא חד אסר וחד שרי
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יד רבה ממרטט ליה ר' יוחנן ממרטט ליה רבי אסי גאים ליה אמר אביי כוותיה דרבי אסי מסתברא דאמר רבי אבא אמר רב יהודה אמר שמואל
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