Chullin 194

ואמור רבנן

and yet [in other cases] the Rabbis ruled that the test is sixty [to one].

בששים

Therefore we say, where substances of different kinds, each kind being permitted by itself, were mixed together, the test is whether or not one imparts a flavour to the other;<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' E.g., where terumah was mixed with common food the mixture is permitted to a priest, and he could taste it and give his opinion as to whether the terumah does impart a flavour in the common food, in which case the mixture is forbidden to all save priests, or does not, in which case the mixture is permitted to all.');">¹</span>

הלכך

and if one of the substances was forbidden<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' E.g., where one of the substances was flesh of an unclean animal, or where both substances separately are permitted but when mixed are forbidden to all, e.g., milk food mixed with meat.');">²</span>

מין בשאינו מינו דהיתרא בטעמא דאיסורא בקפילא

then we rely upon the opinion of a gentile cook.

ומין במינו דליכא למיקם אטעמא אי נמי מין בשאינו מינו דאיסורא דליכא קפילא בששים

Where substances of like kind were mixed together, in which case it is impossible to discern whether one imparts a flavour to the other; or where substances of different kinds, one of which was forbidden, were mixed together, and no [gentile] cook is available, then the test is sixty [to one].<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., the flavour of the forbidden substance is neutralized and lost if the bulk of the permitted substance is sixty times as large as the bulk of the forbidden substance.');">³</span>

הנהו אטמהתא דאימליחו בי ריש גלותא בגידא נשיא רבינא אסר רב אחא בר רב אשי שרי

In the house of the Exilarch, sides of meat were once salted with the sciatic nerve in them.

אתו שיילוה למר בר רב אשי אמר להו

Rabina declared them to be forbidden, whilst R'Aha son of R'Ashi<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' So in cur. edd. In MS.M.: R. Aha b. Rab. Most probably it should be: R. Aha b. Raba, who was a contemporary of Rabina and R. Ashi.');">⁴</span>

אבא שרי

declared them to be permitted.

א"ל רב אחא בר רב לרבינא מאי דעתיך דאמר שמואל

When this case was put to Mar son of R'Ashi he said: My father declared them to be permitted.

מליח הרי הוא כרותח כבוש הרי הוא כמבושל והאמר שמואל

Then said R'Aha son of R'[Ashi] to Rabina: What is the reason for your view?

לא שנו אלא שנתבשל בה אבל נצלה בה קולף ואוכל עד שמגיע לגיד

Is it not Samuel's dictum that whatsoever is salted is counted as hot<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' If two substances, one permitted and the other forbidden, were salted together they are regarded as having been roasted (or cooked? v. infra) together.');">⁵</span>

וכ"ת מאי כרותח דקאמר כרותח דמבושל והא מדקאמר כבוש הרי הוא כמבושל מכלל דרותח דצלי קאמר

and whatsoever is preserved is counted as cooked?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' If substances were preserved in vinegar and in spices for at least twenty-four hours they are regarded as having been cooked together.');">⁶</span>

קשיא

But [remember,] did not Samuel say.

אמר רבי חנינא

This ruling [of our Mishnah] applies only to the case where they were cooked together, but if they were roasted together one may then cut away [the meat] and eat it until one reaches the nerve?

כשהן משערין משערין ברוטב ובקיפה ובחתיכות ובקדרה

And should you say that the term counted as hot' means hot as when cooked, surely [this cannot be, for] since he said: 'whatsoever is preserved is counted as cooked', it follows that [in the first clause 'counted as hot' means] hot as when roasted!<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' And therefore meat salted together with the sciatic nerve is permitted just as if it was roasted with it; so that Rabina's view cannot be upheld.');">⁷</span>

איכא דאמרי

This is indeed a difficulty.

בקדרה עצמה ואיכא דאמרי

R'Hanina said: When measuring<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' To ascertain whether the permitted substance is sixty times as much as the forbidden substance or not.');">⁸</span>

במאי דבלעה קדרה

one should measure the broth, the sediments, the pieces, and the pot.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' All these should be included to make up the sixty-fold as against the forbidden substance.');">⁹</span>

אמר רבי אבהו אמר רבי יוחנן

Some say: The actual thickness of the] pot must be taken into account;<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' One should reckon the volume of the thickness of the pot as well as the quantity of meat and broth etc. in order to make up the required sixty-fold.');">¹⁰</span>

כל איסורין שבתורה משערינן כאילו הן בצל וקפלוט

but others say: Only that which is absorbed in the pot is to be taken into account.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The absorption of the pot is considered to be the difference in the weight between the raw flesh and the flesh when cooked.');">¹¹</span>

אמר ליה רבי אבא לאביי

R'Abbahu said in the name of R'Johanan.

ולשערינהו בפלפלין ותבלין דאפילו באלף לא בטלין

As regards all things prohibited by the Torah<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Except the sciatic nerve, for which the standard is 'meat and turnips', v. our MISHNAH:');">¹²</span>

א"ל

one should measure them as though they were onions or leeks.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' If by substituting onions or leeks for the amount of the forbidden substance the taste of the onions or leeks could be felt in the rest of the stew of the pot, the contents of the pot would be prohibited on account of the forbidden substance, which evidently imparts its flavour so that it can be felt. This method was resorted to before the standard of sixty-fold was fixed.');">¹³</span>

שיערו חכמים דאין נותן טעם באיסורין יותר מבצל וקפלוט

R'Abba said to Abaye: Why not measure as though they were pepper or spices, in which case the flavour would not become neutralized even in a thousand-fold? - He replied: The Rabbis have estimated that among forbidden substances there is none that can impart a stronger flavour than onions or leeks.

אמר רב נחמן

R'Nahman said: The [sciatic] nerve [is neutralized] in sixty-fold, but the nerve itself is not to be includ to make up this number.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., there must be sixty times the volume of the forbidden nerve.');">¹⁴</span>

גיד בששים ואין גיד מן המנין כחל בששים וכחל מן המנין

The udder is neutralized in sixty-fold, but the udder itself is to be included.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' If an udder which was not emptied of its milk was cooked together with meat, the entire contents of the pot would be forbidden unless there was in the pot sixty times as much as the milk of the udder. (The quantity of milk in the udder is regarded as equal to the volume of the udder) . Now the udder can also be included to make up this sixty-fold since it is not the udder that is forbidden but only the milk contained in it. In other words, there must be in the pot fifty-nine times the quantity of the udder; v. infra 109a.');">¹⁵</span>

ביצה בששים ואין ביצה מן המנין

An egg<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Of an unclean bird which was boiled with eggs of clean birds. V. infra.');">¹⁶</span>

אמר רבי יצחק בריה דרב משרשיא

is neutralized in sixty-fold, but the egg itself is not to be included.

וכחל עצמו אסור ואי נפל לקדרה אחרת אוסר

R'Isaac the son of R'Mesharshey said: But the udder itself is forbidden,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Even though the pot contained sixty times the quantity of the udder, in which case everything else in the pot is permitted, the udder itself is forbidden, for the meat in the pot imparted its flavour into it.');">¹⁷</span>

אמר רב אשי כי הוינן בי רב כהנא איבעיא לן

and if it fell into another pot it renders [the contents] forbidden.

כי משערינן בדידיה משערינן או במאי דנפק מיניה משערינן

R'Ashi said: When we were at R'Kahana's the question was put before us: When measuring, should one measure [the prohibited substance] itself or only the essence which exuded from it?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' For the actual forbidden substance has now been removed from the pot, and the question is only with regard to the essence that exuded from it.');">¹⁸</span>

פשיטא דבדידיה משערינן

- It is obvious, surely, that one should measure the substance itself, for if only the essence which exuded from it, [the question arises,] How do we know [how much it is]? - But if so, if it<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Sc. any forbidden substance which was cooked with sixty times as much permitted food and which when taken out subsequently fell into another pot of meat which did not contain the sixty-fold. According to Tosaf. this question deals specifically with the case of the udder mentioned above.');">¹⁹</span>

דאי במה דנפק מיניה מנא ידעינן

subsequently fell into another, pot it should not render [the contents] forbidden?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' For the essence and flavour of the forbidden substance has entirely exuded and has become neutralized and nullified in the first pot, consequently it cannot render forbidden any other foodstuff.');">²⁰</span>

אלא מעתה נפל לקדרה אחרת לא יאסר

- Since R'Isaac the son of R'Mesharsheya had said that the udder itself was forbidden, the Rabbis declared it to be as a piece of nebelah.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The neutralization in the first pot only came about gradually, so that before there was the necessary sixty-fold it was forbidden; accordingly the forbidden substance is always regarded as a piece of nebelah which renders forbidden the contents of any and every pot into which it fell.');">²¹</span>

כיון דאמר רב יצחק בריה דרב משרשיא

'An egg is neutralized in sixty-fold, but the egg itself is not to be included [to make up this number'].

וכחל עצמו אסור שויוה רבנן כחתיכה דנבלה:

R'Idi B'Abin said to Abaye.

ביצה בששים ואין ביצה מן המנין:

Can it be said that it imparts a flavour?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., an egg when cooked with others imparts a flavour in them.');">²²</span>

אמר ליה רב אידי בר אבין לאביי

but people usually say: 'As the mere water of eggs'! - He replied: We are dealing here

למימרא דיהבה טעמא

והא אמרי אינשי כי מיא דביעי בעלמא

א"ל

הכא במאי עסקינן