Chullin 205

Chapter 205

א אכל אבר מן החי מן הטרפה ר' יוחנן אמר
1 If a person ate a limb [severed] from a living animal that was trefah, R'Johanan says: He is liable twice; but R'Simeon B'Lakish says: He is liable but once.
ב חייב שתים ור' שמעון בן לקיש אמר
2 I grant that this is right according to R'Johanan, but according to R'Simeon B'Lakish this is a difficulty, is it not?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' For it is agreed by all that where the two prohibitions are derived from separate verses, as here, the offender is liable twice.');"><sup>1</sup></span>
ג אינו חייב אלא אחת
3 - R'Joseph answered, It is no difficulty, for one case deals with one animal and the other case with two animals.
ד בשלמא לר' יוחנן ניחא אלא לר' שמעון בן לקיש קשיא
4 In the case of two animals<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., he ate a limb severed from a living animal and also flesh taken from another animal which was trefah.');"><sup>2</sup></span>
ה אמר רב יוסף
5 he is liable twice [according to both views], but in the case of one animal<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., he ate a limb severed from a living animal that was trefah.');"><sup>3</sup></span>
ו לא קשיא כאן בבהמה אחת כאן בשתי בהמות
6 they differ.
ז בשתי בהמות מיחייב שתים בבהמה אחת פליגי
7 On what principle do they differ in the case of one animal? - Abaye said: It is a case where the animal was rendered trefah as soon as the greater part of it had come forth [out of the womb].
ח בבהמה אחת במאי פליגי
8 One [R'Johanan] holds that an animal [even] whilst alive stands to be dismembered into limbs, so that the prohibitions of trefah and of the limb from a living creature come Into force simultaneously.
ט אמר אביי
9 The other [R'Simeon B'Lakish] holds that an animal whilst alive does not stand to be dismembered into limbs, so that the prohibition of the 'limb' [when it does arise]<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., when it was actually dismembered.');"><sup>4</sup></span>
י כגון שנטרפה עם יציאת רובה
10 cannot be superimposed upon the [already existing] prohibition of trefah.
יא מ"ס
11 Alternatively, you may say, all agree that an animal whilst alive does not stand to be dismembered into limbs, but they differ whether or no the prohibition of the limb [severed from a living creature] can be superimposed upon the [existing] prohibition of trefah.
יב בהמה בחייה לאברים עומדת ואיסור טרפה ואיסור אבר בהדי הדדי קאתו
12 One [R'Johanan] holds that the prohibition of the limb can be superimposed upon the [existing] prohibition of trefah;<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Since the prohibition of the limb severed from a living creature is a grave restriction for it applies to the sons of Noah. V. supra ');"><sup>5</sup></span>
יג ומ"ס
13 and the other [R'Simeon B'Lakish] holds that the prohibition of the 'limb' cannot be superimposed upon the [existing] prohibition of trefah.
יד בהמה בחייה לאו לאברים עומדת ולא אתי איסור אבר חייל אאיסור טרפה
14 Alternatively, you may say, all agree that an animal whilst alive stands to be dismembered into limbs,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Consequently the prohibition of the 'limb' came into force at the birth of the animal.');"><sup>6</sup></span>
טו ואיבעית אימא דכ"ע בהמה בחייה לאו לאברים עומדת ובמיתי איסור אבר מיחל אאיסור טרפה קא מיפלגי
15 but in this case the animal was rendered trefah later on [and not at birth], and they differ whether or no the prohibition of trefah can be superimposed upon the [existing] prohibition of the limb.
טז מר סבר
16 One [R'Johanan] holds that it can be superimposed;<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' For R. Johanan is of the opinion that a prohibition can always be superimposed upon an existing prohibition.');"><sup>7</sup></span>
יז אתי איסור אבר חייל אאיסור טרפה
17 and the other [R'Simeon B'Lakish] holds that it cannot.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The prohibition of trefah can only come into force after the animal has been slaughtered when the prohibition of the limb of a living animal has gone.');"><sup>8</sup></span>
יח ומר סבר
18 Raba said: It is a case where the person tore away a limb from the living animal and thereby rendered it trefah.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' E.g., he cut off the leg of a living animal above the knee-joint, v. supra 76a, and he ate it.');"><sup>9</sup></span>
יט לא אתי איסור אבר חייל אאיסור טרפה
19 One [R'Johanan] holds that an animal whilst alive does not stand to be dismembered into limbs, so that the prohibitions of trefah and of the 'limb' come into force simultaneously.
כ איבעית אימא דכ"ע בהמה בחייה לאברים עומדת וכגון שנטרפה לאחר מכאן ובמיתי איסור טרפה חייל אאיסור אבר קא מיפלגי
20 The other [R'Simeon B'Lakish] holds that an animal [even] whilst alive stands to be dismembered into limbs, so that the prohibition of trefah cannot be superimposed upon the [existing] prohibition of the 'limb'.
כא מר סבר
21 R'Hiyya B'Abba said in the name of R'Johanan: If a person ate forbidden fat [which was torn away] from a living animal, which was trefah, he is liable twice.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Although he has infringed three prohibitions, (i) of forbidden fat, (ii) of fat (i.e., a limb) taken from a living animal, and (iii) of trefah, he is o liable for two; v. infra.');"><sup>10</sup></span>
כב אתי וחייל
22 Whereupon R'Ammi said to him: And why do you not say thrice?
כג ומר סבר
23 Indeed l say [in the name of R'Johanan that he is liable] thrice.
כד לא אתי וחייל
24 And it has been reported: R'Abbahu said in the name of R'Johanan: If a person ate forbidden fat [torn away] from a living animal, that was trefah, he is liable thrice.
כה רבא אמר
25 On what principle do they differ? - The animal in this case was rendered trefah as soon as the greater part of it had come forth [out of the womb].
כו כגון שתלש ממנה אבר וטרפה בו
26 Now he who says [he is liable] thrice, is of the opinion that an animal [even] whilst alive stands to be dismembered into limbs, so that the prohibitions of the forbidden fat, of the limb [from a living creature], and of trefah come into force simultaneously;<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., at the moment of birth these three prohibitions came into force, for whilst a fetus within the womb the whole of its fat was permitted; v. ruxhts supra 69a. V. however, Tosaf. s.v. .');"><sup>11</sup></span>
כז מר סבר
27 but he who says [he is liable] twice, is of the opinion that an animal whilst alive does not stand to be dismembered into limbs, so that there are [present from the time of birth] the prohibitions of the forbidden fat and of trefah, and the prohibition of the limb [from a living creature] cannot be superimposed upon them.
כח בהמה בחייה לאברים אינה עומדת איסור אבר ואיסור טרפה בהדי הדדי קאתו
28 Alternatively, you may say, all agree that an animal whilst alive does not stand to be dismembered into limbs, but they differ whether or no the prohibition of the limb [from a living creature] can be superimposed upon the [existing] prohibitions of the forbidden fat and of trefah.
כט ומר סבר
29 One holds that it can be superimposed upon them, and the other holds that it cannot.
ל בהמה בחייה לאברים עומדת ולא אתי איסור טרפה חייל אאיסור אבר
30 Alternatively, you may say, all agree that an animal [even] whilst alive stands to be dismembered into limbs, but in this case the animal was rendered trefah later on [and not at birth], and they differ whether or no the prohibition of trefah can be superimposed upon the prohibition of the limb [from a living creature].
לא אמר ר' חייא בר אבא אמר ר' יוחנן
31 One holds it can be superimposed,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' And liability is incurred for each of these three prohibitions.');"><sup>12</sup></span>
לב אכל חלב מן החי מן הטרפה חייב שתים
32 just as it is the case with the forbidden fat, for a Master has said: Th Torah has expressly indicated that the prohibition of nebelah can be superimposed upon the prohibition of forbidden fat, and that the prohibition of trefah can be superimposed upon the prohibition of forbidden fat.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' V. supra 37a, and Zeb. 70a.');"><sup>13</sup></span>
לג אמר ליה ר' אמי
33 The other, however, maintains that it [sc. the prohibition of trefah] can indeed be superimposed upon the prohibition of forbidden fat inasmuch as there is an exception
לד ולימא מר שלש שאני אומר שלש
34 
לה איתמר נמי אמר ר' אבהו א"ר יוחנן
35 
לו אכל חלב מן החי מן הטרפה חייב שלש
36 
לז במאי קמיפלגי
37 
לח כגון שנטרפה עם יציאת רובה
38 
לט מ"ד שלש קסבר
39 
מ בהמה בחייה לאברים עומדת דאיסור חלב ואיסור אבר ואיסור טרפה בהדי הדדי קאתו
40 
מא ומ"ד שתים קסבר
41 
מב בהמה בחייה לאו לאברים עומדת ואיסור חלב ואיסור טרפה איכא איסור אבר לא אתי חייל
42 
מג ואי בעית אימא
43 
מד דכ"ע בהמה בחייה לאו לאברים עומדת ובמיתי איסור אבר וחייל אאיסור חלב ואאיסור טרפה קא מיפלגי
44 
מה מר סבר
45 
מו אתי חייל ומר סבר
46 
מז לא אתי חייל
47 
מח ואי בעית אימא
48 
מט דכולי עלמא בהמה בחייה לאברים עומדת וכגון שנטרפה לאחר מכאן ובמיתי איסור טרפה מיחל אאיסור אבר קא מיפלגי
49 
נ מר סבר
50 
נא אתי חייל מידי דהוה אחלב
51 
נב דאמר מר
52 
נג התורה אמרה יבא איסור נבלה יחול על איסור חלב ויבא איסור טרפה יחול על איסור חלב
53 
נד ואידך אחלב הוא דחייב דהותר
54 
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