Chullin 34

Chapter 34

א סכין שיש בה פגימות הרבה תידון כמגירה ושאין בה אלא פגימה אחת אוגרת פסולה מסוכסכת כשרה
1 A knife with many notches must be regarded as a saw; with but one notch, if it is ogereth,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Heb. from the root , 'to gather, to take in', i.e., to catch or intercept the finger-nail as it passes along the edge of the knife. ,fxfxn ,fxfuxn lxfx');"><sup>1</sup></span>
ב היכי דמיא אוגרת היכי דמיא מסוכסכת
2 it may not be used; if it is mesakseketh,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Heb. ; so MS.M., cur. edd. ; from the root , 'to entangle'.');"><sup>2</sup></span>
ג א"ר אליעזר
3 it may be used.
ד אוגרת משתי רוחות מסוכסכת מרוח אחת
4 What is meant by ogereth and what is meant by mesakseketh? - Ogereth, said R'Eleazar, is a notch with two edges; mesakseketh, a notch with but one edge.
ה מאי שנא משתי רוחות דמורשא קמא מחליש ומורשא בתרא בזע מרוח אחת נמי חורפא דסכינא מחליש מורשא בזע
5 Why is it that if the notch has two edges [the knife is invalid]?
ו דקאים ארישא דסכינא
6 [presumably] because the first edge will cut [the skin and flesh] and the second edge will tear [the organs].
ז סוף סוף כי אזלא מחלשא כי אתא בזע
7 Then, even if the notch has but one edge it should likewise be said.
ח כגון שהוליך ולא הביא
8 The sharp edge of the knife will cut [the skin and flesh] and the notch will tear [the organs]! - [The reference is to a notch] that is at the top of the knife.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' So that the part of the knife which has this one-edged notch will merely cut the skin and perhaps also the flesh, but the organs will be properly cut by the rest of the knife which is not notched.');"><sup>3</sup></span>
ט אמר רבא ג' מדות בסכין
9 But even so, when the knife is moved forward [the edge of the notch] cuts [the skin and flesh] and when it is drawn back it tears [the organs]! - [The reference is where the slaughterer] moved [the knife] forward but did not draw it back.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' There is therefore no possibility of the notch having come into contact with the organs at all.');"><sup>4</sup></span>
י אוגרת לא ישחוט ואם שחט שחיטתו פסולה
10 Raba stated: There are three rules with regard to the knife: (i) if it has an ogereth, one may not slaughter with it, and if one did the slaughtering is invalid; (ii) if it has a mesakseketh, one may not slaughter with it the first instance, but if one did the slaughtering is valid; (iii) if its edge is uneven,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lit., 'it rises and descends'.');"><sup>5</sup></span>
יא מסוכסכת לא ישחוט בה לכתחלה ואם שחט שחיטתו כשרה
11 one may slaughter with it even in the first instance.
יב עולה ויורד בסכין שוחט בה לכתחלה
12 R'Huna the son of R'Nehemiah asked R'Ashi: Did you teach us in the name of Raba that a knife with a mesakseketh is unfit for use?
יג א"ל רב הונא בריה דרב נחמיה לרב אשי
13 Is it not well known that Raba said: A knife with a mesakseketh is fit for use? - It is no contradiction, for in the one case [the slaughterer] moved the knife forward and backward<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The slaughtering is then invalid.');"><sup>6</sup></span>
יד אמרת לן משמיה דרבא מסוכסכת פסולה והא (אמר רבא)
14 but in the other case he moved the knife forward but not backward.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' In which case the slaughtering is valid.');"><sup>7</sup></span>
טו מסוכסכת כשרה
15 R'Aha the son of R'Awia asked R'Ashi: What if the edge of the knife resembles an awn?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., the edge of the knife is rough, though without notches. According to the Alfasi: the knife is so sharp that it resembles an awn.');"><sup>8</sup></span>
טז לא קשיא
16 - He replied: Would that we were given such meat to eat!<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., of an animal slaughtered with such a knife.');"><sup>9</sup></span>
יז כאן שהוליך והביא כאן שהוליך ולא הביא
17 R'Hisda said: Whence do we learn from Scripture that it is necessary to examine the slaughtering knife?
יח אמר ליה רב אחא בריה דרב אויא לרב אשי
18 From the verse: And slaughter with this and eat.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I Sam. XIV, 34. With this, i.e., a knife prepared and examined according to law.');"><sup>10</sup></span>
יט דמיא לסאסאה מאי
19 But is it not obviously necessary so to do, seeing that if the gullet is perforated the animal is trefah?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' And a knife with a notch will most certainly perforate and tear the gullet.');"><sup>11</sup></span>
כ אמר ליה
20 - We mean: [Whence do we learn from Scripture that] it is essential that the knife be examined by a Sage?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' And this apparently is derived from the verse quoted.');"><sup>12</sup></span>
כא מאן יהיב לן מבשריה ואכלינן
21 But surely has not R'Johanan said that the ruling that one must present the knife to a Sage for examination was laid down only out of respect to the Sage? - The rule is actually Rabbinic; and the verse adduced is merely a support.
כב אמר רב חסדא
22 In the West<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., Palestine.');"><sup>13</sup></span>
כג מנין לבדיקת סכין מן התורה
23 the knife is usually examined by the light of the sun.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' In order to detect any notches; either by holding up the knife to the light of the sun or by watching the shadow of the knife on the ground.');"><sup>14</sup></span>
כד שנאמר
24 In Nehardea it is usually examined with water.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Either by passing the sharp edge of the knife across a smooth surface of water, the presence of a notch being detected by the ripple caused; or by allowing a drop of water to trickle down the edge of the knife, when any notch would impede the course of this drop of water.');"><sup>15</sup></span>
כה (שמואל א יד, לד) ושחטתם בזה ואכלתם
25 R'Shesheth used to examine it with the tip of his tongue.
כו פשיטא כיון דכי נקב טריפה בעיא בדיקה
26 R'Aha B'Jacob used to examine it with a hair.
כז לחכם קאמרינן
27 In Sura it was said: Seeing that it is to cut flesh it must be examined with flesh.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., with the soft flesh of the finger or, as R. Shesheth did, with the tip of the tongue.');"><sup>16</sup></span>
כח והאמר רבי יוחנן
28 R'Papa ruled: It must be examined with the flesh of the finger and with the fingernail, and the examination must be of the three edges [of the knife].<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., the sharp edge, and also the sides of this edge must be examined.');"><sup>17</sup></span>
כט לא אמרו להראות סכין לחכם אלא מפני כבודו של חכם
29 Rabina said to R'Ashi: R'Sama the son of R'Mesharsheya told us in your name that you said to him in the name of Raba that it must be examined with the flesh and the nail on the three edges.
ל מדרבנן וקרא אסמכתא בעלמא הוא
30 R'Ashi replied: I said: 'With the flesh and the nail', but not, 'on the three edges'.
לא במערבא בדקי לה בשימשא
31 Another version reads: R'Ashi replied: I said: 'With the flesh and the nail on the three edges', but not 'in the name of Raba'.
לב בנהרדעא בדקו לה במיא
32 Rabina and R'Aha the son of Raba were sitting before R'Ashi when a knife was brought to R'Ashi for examination.
לג רב ששת בדק לה בריש לישניה
33 He thereupon asked R'Aha to examine it, who did so with the flesh of his finger and with his finger nail, on the three edges of the knife.'
לד רב אחא בר יעקב בדק לה בחוט השערה
34 Well done!' said R'Ashi.
לה בסורא אמרי
35 R'Kahana held a similar view.
לו בישרא אכלה בישרא לבדקה
36 R'Yemar said: It must be examined with the nail and the flesh but not on the three edges.
לז אמר רב פפא
37 For did not R'Zera say in the name of Samuel<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' V. supra, 8a. (p. 32) and notes.');"><sup>18</sup></span>
לח צריכא בדיקה אבישרא ואטופרא (ואתלתא רוחתא)
38 that if one made a knife red-hot and slaughtered with it the slaughtering is valid, because the effect of the sharp edge precedes the effect of the heat; and the question was raised as to the sides of the knife, and the answer was given that the cut opens wide?
לט אמר ליה רבינא לרב אשי אמר לן רב סמא בריה דרב משרשיא משמך דאמרת ליה משמיה דרבא
39 Then in this case, too, we should also say that the cut opens wide.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' It is therefore unnecessary to examine the side edges of the knife, for these cannot come into contact with the flesh since the cut opens wide apart.');"><sup>19</sup></span>
מ צריכא בדיקה אבישרא ואטופרא ואתלתא רוחתא
40 R'Huna son of R'Kattina said in the name of R'Simeon B'Lakish.
מא אמר ליה
41 In three matters the law regards a notch as of consequence: (i) A notch in the bone of the paschal lamb;<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' A notch or cut made in the bone of the paschal lamb is a transgression of the law: Neither shall ye break a bone thereof. Ex. XII, 46.');"><sup>20</sup></span>
מב אבישרא ואטופרא אמרי ואתלתא רוחתא לא אמרי
42 A notch in the ear of a male firstling;<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' This is regarded as a blemish and renders the animal unfit for a sacrifice. Consequently this firstling may be slaughtered and used for ordinary purposes. The same would apply to a notch in any other organ besides the ear (v. Bek. 36a) .');"><sup>21</sup></span>
מג איכא דאמרי
43 A notch in any organ which, if blemished, invalidates a sacrifice.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' This refers to such blemishes which are only to be found in female animals and which are not included in class (ii) . E.g., if the female genital organs were defective.');"><sup>22</sup></span>
מד אבישרא ואטופרא ואתלתא רוחתא אמרי משמיה דרבא לא אמרי
44 R'Hisda adds: (iv) Also a notch in the slaughtering knife.
מה רבינא ורב אחא בריה דרבא הוו יתבי קמיה דרב אשי
45 And [why does not] the other [teacher include this last]? - Because he does not deal with unconsecrated matters.
מו אייתו סכין לקמיה דרב אשי לבדקה אמר ליה לרב אחא בריה דרבא
46 In all these cases the notch is measured by the standard of a notch which renders the altar unfit.
מז בידקא
47 
מח בדקה אטופרא ואבישרא ואתלתא רוחתא
48 
מט אמר ליה
49 
נ יישר וכן אמר רב כהנא
50 
נא רב יימר אמר
51 
נב אטופרא ואבישרא צריכא אתלתא רוחתא לא צריכא
52 
נג מי לא א"ר זירא אמר שמואל
53 
נד ליבן סכין ושחט בה שחיטתו כשרה שחידודה קודם לליבונה
54 
נה וקשיא לן
55 
נו האיכא צדדין
56 
נז ואמרינן
57 
נח בית השחיטה מרווח רווח הכא נמי בית השחיטה מרווח רווח
58 
נט אמר רב הונא בר רב קטינא אמר רבי שמעון בן לקיש שלש פגימות הן
59 
ס פגימת עצם בפסח פגימת אוזן בבכור פגימת מום בקדשים
60 
סא ורב חסדא אמר
61 
סב אף פגימת סכין
62 
סג ואידך
63 
סד בחולין לא קא מיירי
64 
סה וכולן פגימתן כדי פגימת המזבח
65 
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