Chullin 9

Chapter 9

א לא הוה מפליג נפשיה מיניה
1 Jehoshaphat would not have kept himself aloof.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' By having his own men slaughter for him; for this would give rise to mistrust in the mind of Ahab. Nevertheless Jehoshaphat would not have eaten of Ahab's slaughtering had he been in doubt as to Ahab's observance of the law of Shechitah.');"><sup>1</sup></span>
ב מנלן
2 How do you know this?
ג אילימא מדכתיב (מלכים א כב, ד) כמוני כמוך כעמי כעמך אלא מעתה כסוסי כסוסיך הכי נמי
3 Shall l say because it is written: I am as thou art, my people as thy people?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I Kings XXII, 4. This verse suggests that the followers of the one king were as reliable in religious matters as the followers of the other king.');"><sup>2</sup></span>
ד אלא מה דהוי אסוסיך תהוי אסוסי ה"נ מאי דהוי עלך ועילוי עמך תיהוי עלי ועילוי עמי
4 If so, can [the following words].'
ה אלא מהכא
5 My horses as thy horses', bear such a meaning?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' It is surely impossible for these words to have any religious significance.');"><sup>3</sup></span>
ו (מלכים א כב, י) ומלך ישראל ויהושפט מלך יהודה יושבים איש על כסאו מלובשים בגדים בגורן פתח שער שומרון מאי גורן
6 You must therefore say that the meaning of the last phrase is: Whatever [burden] shall be on thy horses shall be on my horses;<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Meaning: We shall bear the burden equally in the battle.');"><sup>4</sup></span>
ז אילימא גורן ממש אטו שער שומרון גורן הוה
7 then the first phrase too might mean: Whatever [burden] shall be upon thyself and upon thy men shall be upon myself and upon my men! - Rather it<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' That Jehoshaphat regarded Ahab as reliable in religious matters even though the latter served idols.');"><sup>5</sup></span>
ח אלא כי גורן דתנן
8 is derived from this verse: Now the king of Israel and Jehoshaphat king of Judah sat each on his throne, arrayed in their robes, in a threshing floor, at the entrance of the gate of Samaria.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I Kings XXII, 20.');"><sup>6</sup></span>
ט סנהדרין היתה כחצי גורן עגולה כדי שיהו רואין זה את זה
9 Now, what is meant by 'threshing-floor'?
י לימא מסייע ליה
10 Shall l say it is to be taken literally?
יא (מלכים א יז, ו) והעורבים מביאים לו לחם ובשר בבקר ולחם ובשר בערב ואמר רב
11 But surely the entrance of the gate of Samaria was not a threshing-floor! It can only mean [that they sat together] as in the 'threshing floor' [the court room],<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., just as among the Sanhedrin there was trust and friendship between one another so also between Jehoshaphat and Ahab.');"><sup>7</sup></span>
יב יהודה אמר רב מבי טבחי דאחאב
12 for we learnt: The Sanhedrin sat in the form of a semi-circular threshing-floor so that they might see one another.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' V. Sanh. ');"><sup>8</sup></span>
יג על פי הדבור שאני
13 Can we say that the following supports his [R''Anan's] view?
יד מאי עורבים
14 It is written: And the ravens brought him<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., Elijah.');"><sup>9</sup></span>
טו אמר רבינא
15 bread and flesh in the morning, and bread and flesh in the evening,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I Kings XVII, 6.');"><sup>10</sup></span>
טז עורבים ממש
16 and Rab Judah explained this in the name of Rab that [the ravens brought the flesh] from Ahab's slaughterers!<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Thus proving that the meat slaughtered by Ahab's men, though idolaters, was permitted.');"><sup>11</sup></span>
יז א"ל רב אדא בר מניומי
17 - Being a Divine command it is different.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' It may have been forbidden food, but God permitted it on that occasion. There is therefore no support from this verse for R. 'Anan's view.');"><sup>12</sup></span>
יח ודלמא תרי גברי דהוי שמייהו עורבים
18 What is meant by 'the ravens' [Orebim]? - Rabina said: It means actually ravens.
יט מי לא כתיב
19 R'Ada B'Manyomi, however, suggested to him: May it not mean two men whose names were Oreb, as we find it written: And they slew Oreb at the rock of Oreb, and Zeeb?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Judg. VII, 25, hence we find a person named Oreb, vbye vrgb');"><sup>13</sup></span>
כ (שופטים ז, כה) ויהרגו את עורב בצור עורב ואת זאב וגו'
20 - He replied.
כא א"ל
21 Could it have happened that both were named Oreb?
כב איתרמאי מילתא דתרוייהו הוה שמייהו עורבים
22 But perhaps they were so named after the town in which they lived?
כג ודלמא על שם מקומן
23 Just as it is written: And the Arameans had gone out in bands and had brought away captive out of the land of Israel a little maid.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' II Kings V. 2. Heb. .');"><sup>14</sup></span>
כד מי לא כתיב
24 Now the difficulty was pointed out; [first] the verse refers to this girl as a maid [na'arah]<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., a girl over the age of twelve years and one day.');"><sup>15</sup></span>
כה (מלכים ב ה, ב) וארם יצאו גדודים וישבו מארץ ישראל נערה קטנה וקשיא לן
25 and then as little [ketannah],<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., a girl under the age of twelve years and one day.');"><sup>16</sup></span>
כו קרי לה נערה וקרי לה קטנה
26 and R'Pedath explained this to mean a little girl from the town of Na'aran!<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' V. I Chron. VII, 28. Thus showing that people were called after the name of the town in which they lived.');"><sup>17</sup></span>
כז וא"ר פדת
27 - If so, the verse should read Orebiim.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Which would mean: Inhabitants of the town of Oreb.');"><sup>18</sup></span>
כח קטנה דמן נעורן
28 Can we say that the following supports his [R''Anan's] view?
כט אם כן עורביים מיבעי ליה
29 [For it was taught:] All may slaughter, even a Cuthean, even an uncircumcised Israelite, even an Israelite apostate.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' V. supra p. 14.');"><sup>19</sup></span>
ל לימא מסייע ליה
30 Now, what is meant by an uncircumcised Israelite?
לא הכל שוחטין ואפילו כותי ואפילו ערל ואפילו ישראל מומר
31 Shall I say, it is one whose brothers have died as a result of circumcision?
לב האי ערל ה"ד
32 Surely such a one is a good Israelite! Clearly, then, it can only mean one who is opposed to the law of circumcision.
לג אילימא שמתו אחיו מחמת מילה האי ישראל מעליא הוא
33 Let us now read the last statement: 'Even an Israelite apostate'.
לד אלא פשיטא מומר לערלות
34 What is meant by an Israelite apostate?
לה אימא סיפא
35 Shall I say it means one who is opposed to one particular law, then is not this the same as [the case of] an uncircumcised Israelite?
לו ואפילו ישראל מומר ה"ד
36 Hence it can only mean one who is an apostate in respect of idolatry [and yet he may slaughter] , thus supporting R''Anan's view! - No.
לז אי מומר לדבר אחד היינו מומר לערלות
37 I 'might still maintain that an apostate in respect of idolatry may not [slaughter], for it has been said,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' V. Sheb. ');"><sup>20</sup></span>
לח אלא לאו מומר לעבודת כוכבים וכדרב ענן
38 Grave is idolatry in that he who denies it is as if he accepts the whole Torah;<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' And conversely, he who accepts it denies the whole Torah.');"><sup>21</sup></span>
לט לא לעולם אימא לך
39 and by 'Israelite apostate' is meant one who is opposed to this particular practice [of shechitah]; [and yet such a one may slaughter] in accordance with Raba's view.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Supra p. 13.');"><sup>22</sup></span>
מ מומר לעבודת כוכבים לא דאמר מר
40 An objection was raised: [It is written].
מא חמורה עבודת כוכבים שכל הכופר בה כמודה בכל התורה כולה
41 Of you,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lev. I, 2: When any man of you bringeth an offering unto the Lord, ye shall bring your offering of the cattle.');"><sup>23</sup></span>
מב אלא מומר לאותו דבר וכדרבא
42 but not all of you,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' 'Of' has a partitive meaning, i.e, some of you but not all.');"><sup>24</sup></span>
מג מיתיבי
43 thus excluding an apostate.
מד (ויקרא א, ב) מכם ולא כולכם להוציא את המומר
44 Of you, that is, among you [Israelites] does this distinction apply but not among other nations.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' From other nations all may bring offerings to the Temple.');"><sup>25</sup></span>
מה מכם בכם חלקתי ולא באומות
45 'Of the cattle' includes persons who are [devoid of merit] like animals; hence [the Rabbis] have declared: One should accept sacrifices from the transgressors in Israel, so that they may be inclined to repent, but not from an Israelite apostate, or from one who offers a wine libation [to idols], or from one who profanes the Sabbath publicly.
מו מן הבהמה להביא בני אדם שדומים לבהמה
46 Now this [Baraitha] is self-contradictory.
מז מכאן אמרו
47 It says.'
מח מקבלין קרבנות מפושעי ישראל כדי שיחזרו בהן בתשובה חוץ מן המומר ומנסך את היין ומחלל שבתות בפרהסיא
48 Of you, but not all of you, thus excluding an apostate'; and then it says: 'One may accept sacrifices from the transgressors in Israel'! - This is no difficulty.
מט הא גופא קשיא אמרת
49 The former statement refers to one who is opposed to the whole Torah,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Therefore he is precluded from offering sacrifices.');"><sup>26</sup></span>
נ מכם ולא כולכם להוציא את המומר והדר תני
50 while the latter statement refers to one who is opposed to one particular law.
נא מקבלין קרבנות מפושעי ישראל
51 Consider now the last statement of the Baraitha: 'But not from an Israelite apostate, or from one who offers a wine libation [to idols], or from one who profanes the Sabbath publicly'.
נב הא לא קשיא
52 What is meant by apostate in this statement?
נג רישא מומר לכל התורה כולה מציעתא מומר לדבר אחד
53 If it means one who is opposed to the whole Torah, then it is identical with the first statement;<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Why should it be repeated?');"><sup>27</sup></span>
נד אימא סיפא
54 and if it means one who is opposed to one particular law, then it is inconsistent with the middle statement.
נה חוץ מן המומר ומנסך את היין ומחלל שבת בפרהסיא
55 Of necessity this must be the meaning of the last statement: But not from an Israelite apostate for offering a wine libation [to idols] or for profaning the Sabbath publicly.
נו האי מומר היכי דמי
56 This proves that one who is an apostate in respect of idolatry is regarded as opposed to the whole Torah; consequently R''Anan's opinion is refuted.
נז אי מומר לכל התורה כולה היינו רישא
57 This is a conclusive refutation.
נח ואי מומר לדבר אחד קשיא מציעתא
58 But is this rule<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Of not accepting sacrifices from apostates.');"><sup>28</sup></span>
נט אלא לאו הכי קאמר
59 derived from the above?
ס חוץ מן המומר לנסך את היין ולחלל שבתות בפרהסיא
60 Surely it is derived from the following statement, which was taught:<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' V. Hor. ');"><sup>29</sup></span>
סא אלמא מומר לעבודת כוכבים הוה מומר לכל התורה כולה ותיובתא דרב ענן
61 
סב תיובתא
62 
סג והא מהכא נפקא
63 
סד מהתם נפקא
64 
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