Niddah 23

Chapter 23

א בעא מיניה רבי זירא מרב יהודה אשה מהו שתבדוק עצמה לבעלה אמר ליה לא תבדוק ותבדוק ומה בכך אם כן לבו נוקפו ופורש

1 R. Zera enquired of Rab Judah: Should1 a wife examine herself2 for her husband? — The other replied: She should not examine herself. But [why should she not] examine herself, seeing that none could be the worse for it?3 If [she were to do] so her husband would be uneasy in his mind4 and he would keep away from her. R. Abba enquired of R. Huna: Must5

ב בעא מיניה רבי אבא מרב הונא אשה מהו שתבדוק עצמה כשיעור וסת כדי לחייב בעלה חטאת

2 a woman examine herself immediately [after intercourse] in order to make her husband liable to a sin-offering?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Should any trace of blood be found. If any blood is discovered immediately after intercourse the discharge is presumed to have begun before or during intercourse and the man is liable to a sin-offering (cf. infra 14a.). ');">6 The other replied: Is it at all possible for an examination to take place immediately [after intercourse], seeing that it was taught: 'What is meant by "immediately"? This may be illustrated by the parable of an attendant7

ג א"ל מי משכחת לה לבדיקה כשיעור וסת והתניא איזהו שיעור וסת משל לשמש ועד שעומדים בצד המשקוף ביציאות השמש נכנס עד

3 and the witness8 who stand at the side of the lintel9 where the witness enters immediately after the attendant goes out, this being the interval which the Rabbis allowed as regards wiping off10 but not as regards examination'?11

ד הוי וסת שאמרו לקנוח ולא לבדיקה אלא מהו שתקנח

4 — The question rather is whether she must wipe herself.12 Some there are who say that it was this that he13 enquired of him:14

ה איכא דאמרי הכי בעא מיניה אשה מהו שתבדוק עצמה כדי לחייב בעלה אשם תלוי אמר לו לא תבדוק ותבדוק ומה בכך א"כ לבו נוקפו ופורש

5 Must a woman examine herself [after intercourse]15 in order to make her husband liable16 to a suspended guilt-offering?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Which is incurred in the case of a doubtful transgression. The discovery of blood (cf. prev. n.) is no proof that the discharge began before or during the intercourse as it may have begun after. ');">17 — The other replied: She should not examine herself. But [why should she not] examine herself, seeing that none could be the worse for it?18 — If [she were to do] so19 her husband would be uncertain in his mind20

ו ובשעה שהיא עוברת וכו' אמר ר' אמי אמר רבי ינאי וזהו עדן של צנועות א"ל רבי אבא בר ממל לר' אמי תנא תני צריכות ואת תני צנועות אמר ליה שאני אומר כל המקיים דברי חכמים נקרא צנוע

6 and he would keep away from her. AND ALSO WHEN SHE IS ABOUT etc. R. Ammi citing R. Jannai remarked: And this is the test21 of virtuous women.22 Said R. Abba b. Memel to R. Ammi: The Tanna learnt MUST,23 [how then could] you learn 'virtuous women'?22 — The other replied: Because I maintain that whosoever observes the enactments of the Sages may be described as24 virtuous.25

ז אמר רבא ושאינו מקיים דברי חכמים צנוע הוא דלא מקרי הא רשע לא מקרי אלא אמר רבא צנועות עד שבדקו בו עצמן לפני תשמיש זה אין בודקות בו לפני תשמיש אחר ושאינן צנועות בודקות ולא איכפת להן

7 Said Raba: Would then26 one who does not observe the enactments of the Sages merely lose the designation of27 virtuous man but would not be called wicked? Rather, said Raba, as for virtuous women the testing-rag, with which they have examined themselves before one intercourse, they do not use it before any other intercourse, but those who are not virtuous use it and do not mind. [Reverting to] the main text,28

ח גופא אמר רבי זירא אמר רבי אבא בר ירמיה אמר שמואל אשה שאין לה וסת אסורה לשמש עד שתבדוק אמר ליה ר' זירא לרבי אבא בר ירמיה אין לה וסת בעיא בדיקה יש לה וסת לא בעיא בדיקה

8 'R. Zera citing R. Abba b. Jeremiah who had it from Samuel stated: A woman who has no settled period may not perform marital intercourse before she has examined herself'. Said R. Zera to R. Abba b. Jeremiah: Is it29 only one who has no settled period that must have an examination while a woman who has a settled period requires no examination?30 — The other replied: A woman who has a settled period must have an examination31 only when she is awake<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Because (a) as she is then able to handle clean things and would have to be examined for the purpose she must also be examined for the sake of her husband: and (b) an examination when one is awake does not involve undue inconvenience. ');">32

ט א"ל יש לה וסת ערה בעיא בדיקה ישנה לא בעיא בדיקה אין לה וסת בין ערה בין ישנה בעיא בדיקה

9 but not when she is asleep;33 while a woman who has no settled period must have an examination whether she is awake or asleep. Raba observed: Could he34

י אמר רבא ולימא ליה יש לה וסת לטהרות בעיא בדיקה לבעלה לא בעיא בדיקה אין לה וסת אפילו לבעלה נמי בעיא בדיקה ומדלא א"ל הכי ש"מ קסבר שמואל כל לבעלה לא בעיא בדיקה

10 not reply35 that a woman who had a settled period must be examined36 in respect of clean things37 but not in respect of her husband [alone]38

יא ת"ר חמרין ופועלין והבאין מבית האבל ומבית המשתה נשיהם להם בחזקת טהרה ובאין ושוהין עמהם בין ישנות בין ערות בד"א שהניחן בחזקת טהרה אבל הניחן בחזקת טומאה לעולם היא טמאה עד שתאמר לו טהורה אני

11 while a woman who had no settled period must have an examination even in respect of her husband [alone]?39 As, however, he did not give such a reply it may be inferred that Samuel holds the view that in respect of her husband alone38 a woman40

יב והא שמואל במאי מוקי לה אי בשיש לה וסת קשיא ערה ואי בשאין לה וסת קשיא בין ערה בין ישנה

12 needs no examination.41 Our Rabbis taught: The wives of ass-drivers,42 labourers43

יג לעולם בשיש לה וסת וכיון שתבעה אין לך בדיקה גדולה מזו אמר ליה רב פפא לרבא מהו למעבד כי הא מתניתא

13 and people coming from a house of mourning43 or a house of feasting44 are in respect of their husbands45 deemed to be in a state of presumptive cleanness and the latter may, therefore, come and stay with them whether they are asleep or awake. This, however, applies only where the men46 left the woman in a state of presumptive cleanness but if they left them in a state of presumptive uncleanness each woman is forever regarded as unclean until she announces to her husband 'I am clean'. But how does Samuel<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Who, according to R. Abba b. Jeremiah, holds that (a) one who has a settled period must be examined when awake but not when asleep, while (b) one who has no settled period must be examined even when asleep. ');">47 explain this case?48 If it refers to a woman who has a settled period, does not a difficulty arise from the case where she is awake?49 And if it refers to one who has no settled period, does not a difficulty arise both from the case where she is awake and from that where she is asleep?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' In both cases (even when the woman is awake), no examination is expected, while according to Samuel (cf. (b) note 6) an examination must be held even when she is asleep. ');">50 — As a matter of fact it refers to one who had a settled period51 but52 as the husband had solicited her53 there can be no more reliable54 examination than this.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Had she not ascertained beforehand that she was clean she would not have consented. Samuel's ruling, however, which ordains an examination applies only to husbands whose occupations do not take them away from their homes, and not to such (of whom the Baraitha speaks) as returned home after a considerable absence (cf. Tosaf. and Tosaf. Asheri). ');">55 R. Papa asked Raba: May one56 act in accordance with that Baraitha?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Of the ass-drivers etc., i.e., (cf. Tosaf. contra Rashi) that no examination is necessary, as far as the husband is concerned, where the woman is half asleep (v. Tosaf, s.v. [H]). ');">57

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