Niddah 28

Chapter 28

א אמר לו ר' חייא אי אתה מודה שצריכה כגריס ועוד א"ל אבל אמר לו א"כ (אתה) אף אתה עשיתו כתם
1 Said R. Hiyya to him: 'Do you not agree that it<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The bloodmark on the rag. ');"><sup>1</sup></span> must be slightly bigger than the size of a bean?'<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lit., 'like a bean and more'. If it is smaller it may be presumed to be that of a louse (cf. infra 58b). ');"><sup>2</sup></span> 'Indeed', the other replied. 'If so',<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' That the stain must be no less than a certain minimum. ');"><sup>3</sup></span> the first retorted, 'you also regard it as a stain'.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Cf. supra n. 2. Had it been regarded as menstrual blood the smallest speck of it would have sufficed to cause certain uncleanness (cf. infra 40a) ');"><sup>4</sup></span> Rabbi, however, holds the opinion that it is necessary for the stain to be slightly bigger than the size of a bean in order to exclude the possibility of its being the blood of a louse, but as soon as this possibility is ruled out the blood must undoubtedly have come from her body. Now did not this occur<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lit., 'he stood'. ');"><sup>5</sup></span> when he was in his old age but when he was young he regarded it<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' In agreement with Rabbi. ');"><sup>6</sup></span>
ב ורבי סבר בעינן כגריס ועוד לאפוקי מדם מאכולת וכיון דנפק לה מדם מאכולת ודאי מגופה אתא
2 as menstrually unclean?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Obviously he did, since in his youth he would not have ventured to differ from Rabbi who was his master (Rashi). Aliter: In his youth he would not have addressed Rabbi in the second person (cf. B.B. 158b) but as 'the Master' (Tosaf.). ');"><sup>7</sup></span> This is conclusive.
ג מאי לאו בזקנותו קאי הא בילדותו טימא משום נדה שמע מינה
3 Rabbi was commending R. Hama b. Bisa to R. Ishmael son of R. Jose as a great man, when the latter said to him, 'If you come across him<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lit., 'when he comes to your hand'. ');"><sup>8</sup></span> bring him to me'. When he<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' R. Hama. ');"><sup>9</sup></span> came he<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' R. Ishmael. ');"><sup>10</sup></span>
ד משתבח ליה רבי לרבי ישמעאל ברבי יוסי ברבי חמא בר ביסא דאדם גדול הוא אמר לו לכשיבא לידך הביאהו לידי
4 said to him, 'Ask me something'. 'What is the ruling', the other asked, 'if a woman examined herself with a rag which she had not previously examined and having put it into a box she found some blood upon it on the following day?' 'Shall I give you,' the first answered, 'the ruling according to the views of my father<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' R. Jose. ');"><sup>11</sup></span> or shall I rather give it to you according to the views of Rabbi?'<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' These views are stated infra. ');"><sup>12</sup></span> 'Tell me,' the other said, 'the ruling according to Rabbi'. 'Is this the person', R. Ishmael exclaimed, 'of whom it is said that he is a great man! How could one ignore<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lit., 'put down'. ');"><sup>13</sup></span>
ה כי אתא א"ל בעי מינאי מילתא בעא מיניה בדקה בעד שאינו בדוק לה והניחתו בקופסא ולמחר מצאה עליו דם מהו
5 the views of the Master<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' R. Jose. ');"><sup>14</sup></span> and listen to those of the disciple?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Rabbi. ');"><sup>15</sup></span> R. Hama b. Bisa, however, was of the opinion that since Rabbi was the head of the college and the Rabbis were frequently in his company his traditions were more reliable.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lit., 'sharpened'. ');"><sup>16</sup></span> What is the view of Rabbi [that has just been referred to] and what is that of R. Jose? — R. Adda b. Mattena replied: —
ו אמר לו כדברי אבא אימא לך או כדברי רבי אימא לך א"ל כדברי רבי אימא לי
6 A Tanna taught, Rabbi declares her<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The woman referred to in R. Bisa's question. ');"><sup>17</sup></span> unclean and R. Jose declares her clean. In connection with this R. Zera stated: When Rabbi declared her unclean he did so in agreement with the ruling of R. Meir, but when R. Jose declared her clean he did so in accordance with his own view. For we learnt:<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' So MS.M. and marg. gl. Cur. edd., 'it was taught'. ');"><sup>18</sup></span> If a woman when attending to her needs<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Making water. ');"><sup>19</sup></span> observed a discharge of blood, R. Meir ruled: If she was standing at the time she is unclean but if she was sitting she is clean. R. Jose ruled: In either case she is regarded as clean.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Mishnah infra 59b q.v. notes. ');"><sup>20</sup></span>
ז אמר רבי ישמעאל זהו שאומרין עליו דאדם גדול הוא היאך מניחין דברי הרב ושומעין דברי התלמיד
7 Said R. Aha son of Raba to R. Ashi: But did not R. Jose the son of R. Hanina state that when R. Meir ruled that the woman was unclean he did so only on account of the bloodstain,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., doubtful uncleanness. ');"><sup>21</sup></span> whereas Rabbi regarded her as unclean by reason of menstruation?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Certain uncleanness. How then could R. Zera maintain that Rabbi followed the view of R. Meir? ');"><sup>22</sup></span> — The other replied, What we maintain is this: When that ruling<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Of R. Jose b. Hanina. ');"><sup>23</sup></span>
ח ור' חמא בר ביסא סבר רבי ריש מתיבתא הוא ושכיחי רבנן קמיה ומחדדי שמעתתיה
8 was stated it was that the uncleanness was due to menstruation.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Cf. prev. n. but one mut. mut. ');"><sup>24</sup></span> IF ANY BLOOD IS FOUND ON HER RAG IMMEDIATELY AFTER HER INTERCOURSE THEY ARE BOTH UNCLEAN etc. Our Rabbis taught:<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Supra 12a, q.v. notes. ');"><sup>25</sup></span>
ט מאי רבי ומאי רבי יוסי אמר רב אדא בר מתנא תנא רבי מטמא ורבי יוסי מטהר
9 What is meant by 'immediately'? This may be illustrated by the parable of the attendant and the witness who stood at the side of the lintel where the witness enters immediately after the attendant goes out, this being the interval which the Rabbis allowed as regards wiping off,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Externally, which takes place instantly after intercourse. ');"><sup>26</sup></span> but not as regards an examination.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Internally, which must inevitably take place after a longer interval than the one allowed had elapsed. In the former case the uncleanness is certain and the sacrifice incurred is a sin-offering, while in the latter case the uncleanness is of a doubtful nature and the sacrifice incurred is a suspensive guilt-offering. ');"><sup>27</sup></span> IF, HOWEVER, ANY BLOOD IS FOUND ON HER RAG AFTER A TIME etc. A Tanna taught: They<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Husband and wife, contrary to the ruling of the Tanna of our Mishnah that they are EXEMPT FROM THE SACRIFICE. ');"><sup>28</sup></span>
י ואמר רבי זירא כשטימא רבי כר"מ וכשטיהר רבי יוסי לעצמו טיהר
10 do incur the obligation of bringing a suspensive guilt-offering. But what is the reason of our Tanna?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Cf. prev. n. ');"><sup>29</sup></span> — It is essential<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' If a suspensive guilt-offering is to be incurred. ');"><sup>30</sup></span>
יא דתניא האשה שהיתה עושה צרכיה וראתה דם ר"מ אומר אם עומדת טמאה אם יושבת טהורה
11 [that the doubt shall be of the same nature as in the case of the consumption of] one piece of two pieces.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' One of which was e.g., permitted fat and the the other was forbidden fat, and it is not known which of the two pieces the person in question had consumed. Only in such a case of doubt is a suspensive guilt-offering incurred (cf. Ker. 17b). Where, however, the doubt involves only one object or person (as is the case under discussion where only one woman is concerned) no suspensive guilt-offering can be incurred. ');"><sup>31</sup></span> WHAT IS MEANT BY 'AFTER A TIME'? etc. Is not, however, this<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The definition of 'AFTER A TIME' ');"><sup>32</sup></span>
יב רבי יוסי אומר בין כך ובין כך טהורה
12 incongruous with the following: What is meant by 'after a time'? R. Eleazar<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' So BaH. Cur. edd. 'Eliezer'. ');"><sup>33</sup></span> son of R. Zadok explained: Within an interval in which<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' While still in bed. ');"><sup>34</sup></span>
יג א"ל רב אחא בריה דרבא לרב אשי והא א"ר יוסי בר' חנינא כשטימא ר"מ לא טימא אלא משום כתם ואילו רבי משום נדה קאמר א"ל אנן הכי קאמרינן כי איתמר ההיא משום נדה איתמר
13 she can stretch out her hand, put it under the cushion or bolster, take out a testing-rag and make examination with it?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' This interval (cf. prev. n.) being shorter than the one IN WHICH SHE CAN DESCEND FROM THE BED etc., it follows that, according to this Baraitha, during the longer interval the woman does not convey uncleanness to her husband and is only subject to the lesser restrictions of the twenty-four hours' period of retrospective uncleanness. How then are the two rulings to be reconciled? ');"><sup>35</sup></span> — R. Hisda replied: By AFTER is meant the interval following this interval.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Defined in our Baraitha. Lit., 'after the after'. During the interval as defined in the Baraitha both husband and wife are subject to doubtful uncleanness but after that interval, and during the one defined in our Mishnah, the woman, according to the Rabbis, as stated in the next clause of the Mishnah, does not convey any uncleanness to her husband. ');"><sup>36</sup></span> But was it not stated in connection with this,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The interval defined in our Mishnah. ');"><sup>37</sup></span> IF, HOWEVER, ANY BLOOD IS FOUND ON HER RAG AFTER A TIME THEY ARE UNCLEAN, BY REASON OF THE DOUBT BUT EXEMPT FROM THE SACRIFICE. WHAT IS MEANT BY 'AFTER A TIME'? WITHIN AN INTERVAL IN WHICH SHE CAN DESCEND FROM THE BED AND WASH HER FACE?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Which clearly shows, does it not, that during the interval spoken of in our Mishnah the woman does carry uncleanness to her husband? ');"><sup>38</sup></span> — It is this that was implied:<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Sc. some words are missing from our Mishnah and are to be regarded as inserted. ');"><sup>39</sup></span>
יד נמצא על שלה אותיום טמאין וכו' ת"ר איזהו שיעור וסת משל לשמש ועד שעומדין בצד המשקוף ביציאת שמש נכנס עד
14 WHAT IS MEANT BY 'AFTER A TIME'? Within an interval in which she can stretch out her hand, put it under the cushion or bolster, take out a testing-rag and make examination with it; and WITHIN AN INTERVAL IN WHICH SHE CAN DESCEND FROM THE BED AND WASH HER FACE [the question of uncleanness is subject to] a divergence of view between R. Akiba and the Sages. But was it not stated,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' In connection with the dispute between R. Akiba and the Sages. ');"><sup>40</sup></span> AFTER SUCH AN INTERVAL?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Sc. after the one defined in our Mishnah; from which it follows that during this interval both agree that the woman does carry uncleanness to her husband. ');"><sup>41</sup></span> — It is this that was meant: And this is the interval concerning which R. Akiba and the Sages are at variance. R. Ashi replied: The former and the latter<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The interval defined in our Mishnah and the one defined in the Baraitha. ');"><sup>42</sup></span>
טו הוי וסת שאמרו לקינוח אבל לא לבדיקה
15 represent the same length of time; when she has the testing-rag in her hand the time IS WITHIN AN INTERVAL IN WHICH SHE CAN DESCEND FROM THE BED AND WASH HER FACE, but if she has not the rag in her hand the time is limited to 'within an interval in which she can stretch out her hand, put it under the cushion or bolster, take out a testing-rag and make examination with it'.
טז נמצא על שלה לאחר זמן וכו' תנא וחייבין אשם תלוי ותנא דידן מ"ט
16 An objection was raised: What is meant by 'after a time'? This question was submitted by R. Eleazar son of R. Zadok to the Sages at Usha when he asked them,
יז בעינן חתיכה משתי חתיכות
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יח איזהו אחר זמן וכו' ורמינהי איזהו אחר זמן פירש ר' אליעזר ברבי צדוק כדי שתושיט ידה תחת הכר או תחת הכסת ותטול עד ותבדוק בו
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יט אמר רב חסדא מאי אחר אחר אחר
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כ והא קתני עלה נמצא על שלה לאחר זמן טמאין מספק ופטורין מן הקרבן איזהו אחר זמן כדי שתרד מן המטה ותדיח פניה
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כא ה"ק איזהו אחר זמן כדי שתושיט ידה לתחת הכר או לתחת הכסת ותטול עד ותבדוק בו וכדי שתרד מן המטה ותדיח את פניה מחלוקת ר"ע וחכמים
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כב והא אח"כ קתני ה"ק וזהו אח"כ שנחלקו ר"ע וחכמים
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כג רב אשי אמר אידי ואידי חד שיעורא הוא עד בידה כדי שתרד מן המטה ותדיח את פניה אין עד בידה כדי שתושיט ידה לתחת הכר או לתחת הכסת ותטול עד ותבדוק בו
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כד מיתיבי איזהו אחר זמן דבר זה שאל רבי אלעזר ברבי צדוק לפני חכמים באושא ואמר להם
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