Niddah 38

לתלות

the question of suspense.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., whether blood of a colour other than those of the five enumerated is (a) absolutely clean or (b) only doubtfully so. Beth Hillel are in agreement with (a) and the first Tanna agrees with (b). ');">¹</span>

הירוק עקביא בן מהללאל מטמא

ONE THAT IS YELLOW, AKABIA B. MAHALALEL DECLARES UNCLEAN. But does not Akabia uphold the deduction from 'Her blood, her blood', which imply four kinds?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Cf. nn. on previous paragraph but one. ');">²</span>

ולית ליה לעקביא דמיה דמיה הרי כאן ארבעה

— If you wish I may reply: He does not uphold it. And if you prefer I may reply: He does uphold it; but did not R. Hanina explain, 'Black blood is really red [blood] that had deteriorated'? Well, here also it may be explained that [the blood] had merely deteriorated.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Cf. nn. on previous paragraph but one. ');">²</span>

אב"א

AND THE SAGES DECLARE IT CLEAN. Is not this ruling identical with that of the first Tanna?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' In the first clause of our Mishnah. ');">³</span>

לית ליה ואב"א

— The practical difference between them is the question of suspense.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Cf. prev. n. but one mut. mut. ');">⁴</span>

אית ליה מי לא א"ר חנינא שחור אדום הוא אלא שלקה הכא נמי מלקא הוא דלקי

R. MEIR SAID: EVEN IF IT DOES NOT CONVEY UNCLEANNESS AS A BLOODSTAIN etc. R. Johanan stated: R. Meir took up<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lit., 'descended'. ');">⁵</span>

וחכמים מטהרין

the line of Akabia b. Mahalalel and declared it<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' A yellow discharge. ');">⁶</span>

היינו ת"ק

unclean;<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' As menstrual blood. ');">⁷</span>

איכא בינייהו לתלות

and it is this that he in effect said to the Rabbis, 'Granted that where a woman finds a yellow bloodstain on her garment you do not regard her as unclean;<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Being yellow (an unusual colour for blood) it might well be presumed to have originated from some source other than her body. ');">⁸</span>

א"ר מאיר

where she observed a discharge of yellow blood from her body<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' So that its origin is certain. ');">⁹</span>

אם אינו מטמא משום כתם כו'

she must be deemed unclean'. If so, instead of saying, EVEN IF IT DOES NOT CONVEY UNCLEANNESS AS A BLOODSTAIN IT CONVEYS UNCLEANNESS AS A LIQUID, should he not have said 'on account of her observation'?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Of an actual discharge. ');">¹⁰</span>

א"ר יוחנן

— Rather, it is this that he in effect said to them, 'Granted that where the woman observed yellow blood at the outset you do not<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Despite the observation. ');">¹¹</span>

ירד ר"מ לשיטת עקביא בן מהללאל וטימא

regard her as unclean;<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Because yellow is not the colour of blood; UNCLEANNESS AS A BLOODSTAIN meaning: As other blood whose stain conveys uncleanness. ');">¹²</span>

וה"ק להו לרבנן

where she observed first red blood<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Which causes her to be definitely unclean. ');">¹³</span>

נהי דהיכא דקא משכחת כתם ירוק אמנא לא מטמאיתו היכא דקחזיא דם ירוק מגופה תטמא

and then a yellow discharge the latter also must be deemed unclean,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Sc. in respect of conveying uncleanness to man or object that comes in contact with it. ');">¹⁴</span>

אי הכי אם אינו מטמא משום כתם מטמא משום משקה משום רואה מבעיא ליה

since it is something like the liquids<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Spittle, for instance. ');">¹⁵</span>

אלא ה"ק להו

of a <i>zab</i> or a zabah'.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Which, though they are no blood, convey uncleanness. ');">¹⁶</span>

נהי היכא דקא חזיא דם ירוק מעיקרא לא מטמאיתו היכא דחזיא דם אדום והדר חזיא דם ירוק תטמא מידי דהוה אמשקה זב וזבה

And the Rabbis?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' How, in view of this argument, could they maintain that a yellow discharge is clean in all circumstances? ');">¹⁷</span>

ורבנן דומיא דרוק מה רוק שמתעגל ויוצא אף כל שמתעגל ויוצא לאפוקי האי דאין מתעגל ויוצא

— [An unclean liquid must be] similar to spittle; as spittle is formed in globules when it is discharged so must any other unclean liquid be one that is formed in globules when it is discharged; that liquid<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' A yellow discharge. ');">¹⁸</span>

אי הכי שפיר קאמרי ליה רבנן לר' מאיר

is therefore excluded since it is not formed in globules when discharged. If so, do not the Rabbis indeed give R. Meir a most satisfactory answer?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' How then could R. Meir still maintain his view? ');">¹⁹</span>

אלא ה"ק להו

— It is rather this that he said to them in effect: 'It<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' A yellow discharge. ');">¹⁸</span>

להוי כמשקה להכשיר את הזרעים

should have the status of a liquid in respect of rendering seed susceptible to uncleanness'.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Cf. Lev. XI, 38. ');">²⁰</span>

ורבנן בעי (במדבר כג:כד) דם חללים וליכא

And the Rabbis?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Cf. supra n. 3. ');">²¹</span>

אי הכי שפיר קאמרי ליה רבנן לר' מאיר

— [For such a purpose] it is necessary that it shall be like the blood of the slain,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Num. XXIII, 24, sc. blood on which life depends (cf. Pes. 16a). ');">²²</span>

אלא הכי קאמר להו אלפוה בג"ש כתיב הכא

which is not the case here. If so, did not the Rabbis indeed answer R. Meir well?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' How then could R. Meir still maintain his view? ');">¹⁹</span>

{שיר השירים ד } שלחיך פרדס רמונים וכתיב התם

— It is rather this that he in effect said to them: 'Deduce this<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' That a yellow discharge renders seed susceptible to uncleanness. ');">²³</span>

(איוב ה, י) ושולח מים על פני חוצות

by gezera shawah;<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' V. Glos. ');">²⁴</span>

ורבנן אדם דן ק"ו מעצמו ואין אדם דן ג"ש מעצמו

here<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' In respect of menstrual discharges. ');">²⁵</span>

רבי יוסי אומר לא כך וכו'

it is written, Thy shoots<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Shelahayik (rt. [H]) euphemism (cf. prev. n.). ');">²⁶</span>

היינו ת"ק

are a park of pomegranates<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Cant. IV, 13. ');">²⁷</span>

הא קמ"ל

and elsewhere it is written, And sendeth<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Wesholeah (rt. [H]). ');">²⁸</span>

מאן ת"ק רבי יוסי וכל האומר דבר בשם אומרו מביא גאולה לעולם

water upon the fields.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Job V, 10. Analogy between the two words of the same root: As the water referred to in Job renders seed susceptible to uncleanness so does a woman's discharge alluded to in Cant. ');">²⁹</span>

איזהו אדום כדם המכה

And the Rabbis?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' How can they maintain their view in opposition to the gezera shawah? ');">³⁰</span>

מאי כדם המכה

A man may infer a ruling a minori ad majus on his own but he may not infer on his own one that is derived from a gezera shawah.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Which must be traditional if it is to be valid. As R. Meir drew the analogy on his own the Rabbis could well disregard it. ');">³¹</span>

אמר רב יהודה אמר שמואל

R. JOSE RULED: IT DOES NEITHER THE ONE NOR THE OTHER etc. Is not this ruling identical with that of the first Tanna?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' In the first clause of our Mishnah. Why then the repetition? ');">³²</span>

כדם שור שחוט

— It is this that we were informed: Who is the first Tanna? R. Jose; for he who repeats a thing in the name of him who said it brings deliverance into the world.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Cf. Ab. VI, 6. ');">³³</span>

ולימא

WHAT COLOUR IS REGARDED AS RED? ONE LIKE THE BLOOD OF A WOUND. What is meant by LIKE THE BLOOD OF A WOUND? — Rab Judah citing Samuel replied: Like the blood of a slaughtered ox.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The true colour of red. Cf. Yoma 56b. ');">³⁴</span>

כדם שחיטה

Why then was it not stated, 'Like the blood of slaughtering'? — If it had been stated, 'Like the blood of slaughtering' it might have been presumed to mean like the blood during the entire process of slaughtering,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' During which the colours change. ');">³⁵</span>

אי אמר כדם שחיטה הוה אמינא ככולה שחיטה קמ"ל כדם המכה כתחילת הכאה של סכין

hence we were told, LIKE THE BLOOD OF A WOUND, meaning like that caused by the first stroke of the knife. 'Ulla replied:<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' To the question supra, what is meant by LIKE THE BLOOD OF A WOUND? ');">³⁶</span>

עולא אמר

Like the blood of [a wound inflicted on] a live bird. The question was raised: Does 'live'<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Heb. hai (fem. haiyah) may mean both 'live' and 'sound', 'healthy'. ');">³⁷</span>

כדם צפור חיה

exclude a slaughtered bird or does it possibly exclude an emaciated one? — This is undecided.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Teku. ');">³⁸</span>

איבעיא להו

Ze'iri citing R. Hanina replied:<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' To the question supra, what is meant by LIKE THE BLOOD OF A WOUND? ');">³⁶</span>

חיה לאפוקי שחוט או דלמא לאפוקי כחוש

Like the blood of a head louse. An objection was raised: If she<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' A woman who discovered a bloodstain. ');">³⁹</span>

תיקו

killed a louse she may attribute the stain to it.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Infra 58b. ');">⁴⁰</span>

זעירי אמר רבי חנינא

Does not this refer to a louse of any part of the body? — No, to one of her head. Ammi of Wardina<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Place name (cf. 'Er. 49a). Wardina or Barada on the eastern bank of the Tigris was two hours distance from the north of Bagdad (cf. 'Er. (Sonc. ed.) p. 340, n. 11). Aliter: 'The fragrant (werad = rose) Ammi' (cf. Rashi). ');">⁴¹</span>

כדם מאכולת של ראש

citing R. Abbahu replied:<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' To the question supra, what is meant by LIKE THE BLOOD OF A WOUND? ');">³⁶</span>

מיתיבי

Like the blood of the little finger of the hand that was wounded and healed and wounded again. Furthermore, it does not mean that of any person but only that of a young unmarried man. And up to what age? — Up to that of twenty.

הרגה מאכולת הרי זה תולה בה מאי לאו דכוליה גופה

An objection was raised: She<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' A woman who discovered a bloodstain. ');">³⁹</span>

לא דראשה

may attribute it to her son<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' If either of them was afflicted with a wound. Infra 58b. ');">⁴²</span>

אמי ורדינאה א"ר אבהו

or to her husband.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' If either of them was afflicted with a wound. Infra 58b. ');">⁴²</span>

כדם אצבע קטנה של יד שנגפה וחייתה וחזרה ונגפה ולא של כל אדם אלא של בחור שלא נשא אשה

[Now the attribution] to her son is quite reasonable since it is possible [that he was unmarried],<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' And the blood of his wound satisfies, therefore, all the conditions laid down by R. Abbahu. ');">⁴³</span>

ועד כמה

but how is this possible in the case of her husband?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Who must be a married man (cf. prev. n. mut. mut.). ');">⁴⁴</span>

עד בן עשרים

— R. Nahman b. Isaac replied: Where, for instance, the woman entered the bridal chamber but had no intercourse.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' So that the blood is in reality that of an unmarried man (cf. prev. n. but one). ');">⁴⁵</span>

מיתיבי

R. Nahman replied:<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' To the question, supra, what is meant by 'LIKE THE BLOOD OF A WOUND'? ');">⁴⁶</span>

תולה בבנה ובבעלה בשלמא בבנה משכחת לה אלא בעלה היכי משכחת לה

Like the blood of the arteries.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Hakazah, lit., 'blood letting'. ');">⁴⁷</span>

אמר ר"נ בר יצחק

An objection was raised: It once happened that R. Meir attributed it<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' A stain. ');">⁴⁸</span>

כגון שנכנסה לחופה ולא נבעלה

ר"נ אמר

כדם הקזה

מיתיבי

מעשה ותלה ר"מ