Niddah 39

בקילור ורבי תלה בשרף שקמה

to collyrium<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' [G] a reddish eyesalve, which the woman had handled that day. ');">¹</span>

מאי לאו אאדום

and Rabbi attributed it to the sap of a sycamore.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Infra 58b, Cf. prev. n. mut. mut. ');">²</span>

לא אשאר דמים

Now did not these cases<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' From which it follows that colours like that of collyrium or sycamore sap that are not intensely red are regarded as similar to that of menstrual blood. ');">³</span>

אמימר ומר זוטרא ורב אשי הוו יתבי קמיה אומנא שקלי ליה קרנא קמייתא לאמימר חזייה אמר להו

deal with the question of red blood?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' But, if so, how could the authorities (supra 19b) maintain that menstrual blood is intensely red like that, for instance, of a young unmarried man? ');">⁴</span>

אדום דתנן כי האי

— No; with that of other kinds of blood.

שקלי ליה אחריתי אמר להו

Amemar and Mar Zutra and R. Ashi once sat before a cupper,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' For an operation of blood drawing with cupping horns. ');">⁵</span>

אשתני

and when the first cupping-horn was taken off Amemar he saw it and said to the others, 'The red<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' In respect of menstrual blood. ');">⁶</span>

אמר רב אשי

of which we have learnt<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' In our Mishnah. ');">⁷</span>

כגון אנא דלא ידענא בין האי להאי לא מבעי לי למחזי דמא

is a shade like this'. When the second one was taken off from him, he said to them, 'This has a different shade'. 'One like myself', observed R. Ashi, 'Who does not know the difference between the one and the other must not act as an examiner of blood'.

שחור כחרת

'BLACK? LIKE THE SEDIMENT [OF INK]. Rabbah son of R. Huna stated: The HERETH<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Rendered in our Mishnah SEDIMENT OF INK. ');">⁸</span>

אמר רבה בר רב הונא

of which the Rabbis spoke<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' In our Mishnah. ');">⁷</span>

חרת שאמרו דיו

is ink. So it was also taught: Black<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' In respect of a woman's discharge. ');">⁹</span>

תניא נמי הכי

is a colour like hereth and the 'black' of which the Rabbis spoke<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' In respect of a woman's discharge. ');">⁹</span>

שחור כחרת ושחור שאמרו דיו

is the colour of ink. Then why was it not directly stated, 'Ink'? — If 'ink' had been stated, it might have been presumed to refer to the watery part of the ink,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., the upper part above the sediment. This is not so black as the lower part. ');">¹⁰</span>

ולימא דיו

hence we were informed that the colour is like that of the sediment of the ink. The question was raised: Is the reference to liquid, or to dry ink? — Come and hear of [the practice of] R. Ammi who used to split a grain of dry ink and with its aid performed the necessary examination.

אי אמר דיו הוה אמינא

Rab Judah citing Samuel ruled: [If a woman's discharge has a colour] like that of black wax, black ink or a black grape she is unclean; and it is this that was meant by what we learnt: IF IT IS DARKER IT IS UNCLEAN.

כי פכחותא דדיותא קמ"ל כי חרותא דדיותא

R. Eleazar ruled: [A discharge that has a colour] like that of a black olive, pitch or a raven is clean; and it is this that was alluded to in what we have learnt: IF LIGHTER IT IS CLEAN.

איבעיא להו

'Ulla explained:<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The unclean black in our Mishnah. ');">¹¹</span>

בלחה או ביבשתא

One like a Siwa<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' A place where dark clothes were manufactured. Aliter: Dirty-dark. ');">¹²</span>

תא שמע

cloak. 'Ulla once visited Pumbeditha when he noticed an Arab merchant who was wearing a black cloak. 'The black of which we have learnt',<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' In our Mishnah. ');">¹³</span>

דרבי אמי פלי קורטא דדיותא ובדיק בה

he told them, 'is a colour like this'. They pulled it off him in bits<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' To be preserved as models of the standard black. ');">¹⁴</span>

אמר רב יהודה אמר שמואל

and paid him for it four hundred <i>zuz</i>.

כקיר כדיו וכענב טמאה וזוהי ששנינו עמוק מכן טמאה

R. Johanan explained:<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The unclean black in our Mishnah. ');">¹¹</span>

אמר רבי אלעזר

[One of the colour of] those court<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Aliter: bathing attendants. ');">¹⁵</span>

כזית כזפת וכעורב טהור וזוהי ששנינו דיהה מכן טהור

clothes that are imported from courtiers beyond the sea. This then implies that such clothes are black, but did not R. Jannai address the following request to his sons: 'My children, do not bury me either in black shrouds or white shrouds; "either in black", peradventure I may be worthy [of a place in paradise] and I would be like a mourner among bridegrooms;<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The righteous who are clad in white. ');">¹⁶</span>

עולא אמר

"or in white", peradventure I might not be worthy and would be like a bridegroom among mourners;<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The wicked in Gehenna. ');">¹⁷</span>

כלבושא סיואה

but [bury me] only in court<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Aliter: bathing attendants. ');">¹⁵</span>

עולא אקלע לפומבדיתא חזייה לההוא טייעא דלבוש לבושא אוכמא

clothes that are imported from countries beyond the sea', which clearly proves, does it not, that these are not black?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Is not this then contradictory to R. Johanan's view? ');">¹⁸</span>

אמר להו

— This is no difficulty, the latter<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Spoken of by R. Jannai. ');">¹⁹</span>

שחור דתנן כי האי

referring to wrappers,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Which are red. ');">²⁰</span>

מרטו מיניה פורתא פורתא יהבו ביה ארבע מאה זוזי

while the former<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' R. Johanan's statement. ');">²¹</span>

רבי יוחנן אמר

refers to clothes worn<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Or 'cloths used'. ');">²²</span>

אלו כלים האוליירין הבאים ממדינת הים

at table.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Which are black. ');">²³</span>

למימרא דאוכמי נינהו

Rab Judah citing Samuel ruled: And all these<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Five kinds of blood (v. our Mishnah). ');">²⁴</span>

והאמר להו רבי ינאי לבניו

must be tested only on a white strip of cloth. R. Isaac b. Abudemi ruled: But black blood may be tested on a red strip of cloth. R. Jeremiah of Difti observed: There is really no difference of opinion between them,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Samuel and R. Isaac b. Abudemi. ');">²⁵</span>

בני אל תקברוני לא בכלים שחורים ולא בכלים לבנים

since the latter speaks only of black blood while the former refers to the other kinds of blood. R. Ashi demurred: If so, why did not Samuel say, 'With the exception of black'? Rather, said R. Ashi, they<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Samuel and R. Isaac b. Abudemi. ');">²⁶</span>

שחורים שמא אזכה ואהיה כאבל בין החתנים לבנים שמא לא אזכה ואהיה כחתן בין האבלים אלא בכלים האוליירין הבאים ממדינת הים

differ on the very question of black itself.

אלמא לאו אוכמי נינהו

'Ulla ruled: In the case of all these<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Five kinds of blood (v. our Mishnah). ');">²⁷</span>

לא קשיא הא בגלימא הא בפתורא

if the discharge is darker<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Than the standard shade. ');">²⁸</span>

אמר רב יהודה אמר שמואל

It is unclean and if it is lighter<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Than the standard shade. ');">²⁸</span>

וכולם אין בודקין אלא על גבי מטלית לבנה

it is clean, as is the case with black.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Concerning which the limitations are specifically laid down in our Mishnah. ');">²⁹</span>

אמר רב יצחק בר אבודימי

Then why did it mention only black? — As it might have been presumed that, since R. Hanina stated, 'Black [blood] is really red blood that had deteriorated', it should, therefore, be unclean even if it is lighter, hence we were informed [that IF LIGHTER IT IS CLEAN].

ושחור על גבי אדום

R. Ammi b. Abba ruled: In the case of all these<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Five kinds of blood (v. our Mishnah). ');">²⁷</span>

אמר רב ירמיה מדפתי

if the discharge is darker<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Than the standard shade. ');">²⁸</span>

ולא פליגי הא בשחור הא בשאר דמים

it is unclean and if it is lighter it is also unclean, the only exception being black.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Which IF LIGHTER IT IS CLEAN. ');">³⁰</span>

מתקיף לה רב אשי

What then<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' In the case of the colours other than black which, as has just been stated, not only a darker, but also a lighter shade is unclean. ');">³¹</span>

אי הכי לימא שמואל חוץ משחור

was the use of the standard shade laid down by the Rabbis? — To exclude<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' From uncleanness. ');">³²</span>

אלא אמר רב אשי

one that was extremely faint.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lit., 'lighter of lighter'. Such a shade is clean. ');">³³</span>

בשחור גופיה קמיפלגי

There are others who read: Rami b. Abba ruled: In the case of all these<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Five kinds of blood (v. our Mishnah). ');">³⁴</span>

אמר עולא

if the discharge is darker<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Than the standard shade. ');">³⁵</span>

כולן עמוק מכן טמא דיהה מכן טהור כשחור

it is clean and if it is lighter it is also clean, the only exception being black;<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Which IF LIGHTER IT IS CLEAN. ');">³⁰</span>

ואלא מאי שנא שחור דנקט

and it is in this case that the Rabbinical standard is of use.

סד"א

Bar Kappara ruled: In the case of all these<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Five kinds of blood (v. our Mishnah). ');">³⁴</span>

הואיל ואמר רבי חנינא שחור אדום הוא אלא שלקה הילכך אפילו דיהה מכן נמי ליטמא קמשמע לן

if the discharge is darker it is unclean and if lighter it is clean, the exception being [the colour of] diluted wine in which a darker shade is clean and a lighter one is also clean. Bar Kappara was shown a lighter shade<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Of a discharge of the colour of diluted wine. ');">³⁶</span>

רבי אמי בר אבא אמר

and he declared it clean, and when he was shown a darker shade<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Of a discharge of the colour of diluted wine. ');">³⁶</span>

וכולן עמוק מכן טמא דיהה מכן נמי טמא חוץ משחור

he also declared it clean. 'How great is the man', exclaimed R. Hanina, 'who in practice acts<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' So Maharsha. Cur. edd., 'whose heart'. ');">³⁷</span>

אלא מאי אהני שיעוריה דרבנן

in agreement with his view.

לאפוקי דיהה דדיהה

A COLOUR LIKE BRIGHT CROCUS. A Tanna taught: Fresh crocus and not dry one. One [Baraitha] taught: Like the lower leaf<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Of the crocus. ');">³⁸</span>

ואיכא דאמרי רמי בר אבא אמר

but not like the upper one, and another [Baraitha] taught: Like the upper leaf but not like the lower one, while a third [Baraitha] taught: Like the upper leaf and much more so like the lower one, and a fourth [Baraitha] taught: Like the lower leaf and much more so like the upper one!<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' How are the four contradictory statements to be reconciled? ');">³⁹</span>

וכולן עמוק מכן טהור דיהה מכן טהור חוץ משחור

— Abaye replied: The crocus has three rows of leaves<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' One below the other. ');">⁴⁰</span>

ולהכי מהני שיעוריה דרבנן

and there are three leaves in each row; keep<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' As the most correct standard for the blood test. ');">⁴¹</span>

בר קפרא אמר

to the middle row<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Which has the 'lower leaf' as compared with the top row (first Baraitha) and the 'upper leaf' as compared with the lowest row (second Baraitha). V. foll. n. ');">⁴²</span>

וכולן עמוק מכן טמא דיהה מכן טהור

and the middle leaf of that row.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Though the other leaves in that row may also be taken as the standard. The middle leaf is the 'lower one' as compared with the one above it (third Baraitha) and the 'upper one' as compared with the one below it (fourth Baraitha). ');">⁴³</span>

חוץ ממזג שעמוק מכן טהור דיהה מכן טהור

When they came before R. Abbahu he told them: What we learnt [about the colour of the crocus refers to such as are still] attached to their clods.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Of earth. Their colour then is much brighter than that of the detached plant which may not be used as a standard. ');">⁴⁴</span>

בר קפרא אדיהו ליה ודכי אעמיקו ליה ודכי

OR LIKE EARTHY WATER. Our Rabbis taught: Like earthy water — one brings fertile soil from the valley of Beth Kerem over which he causes water to float; so R. Meir. R. Judah<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' So MS.M. and Elijah Wilna. Cur. edd., 'Akiba'. ');">⁴⁵</span>

אמר רבי חנינא

said: From the valley of Jotapata.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' A fortress in Galilee. ');">⁴⁶</span>

כמה נפיש גברא דלביה כמשמעתיה

R. Jose said: From the valley of Sikni.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Or Siknin, on the north of Jotapata. ');">⁴⁷</span>

וכקרן כרכום

R. Simeon said: Also from the valley of Gennesaret<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' In Lower Galilee on the banks of the lake of the same name. ');">⁴⁸</span>

תנא

and similar soil. Another [Baraitha] taught: And like earthy water — one brings fertile soil from the valley of Beth Kerem and over it he causes water to float until it forms a layer as thin as the husk of garlic; and no quantity has been prescribed for the water since none has been prescribed for the earth.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The more the earth the more the water and vice versa. ');">⁴⁹</span>

לח ולא יבש

The water, furthermore, is not to be examined when it is clean but when turbid. If they become clear they must be stirred up again;<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' To mix up the earth with it. ');">⁵⁰</span>

תני חדא

and when they are stirred one must not do it with the hand but with a vessel. The question was raised: [Does the expression,] 'One must not do it with the hand but with a vessel' mean that a man must not put it in his hand and stir it in it but that where it is in a vessel it is quite proper for him to stir it with his hand, or is it possible that the meaning is that one must not stir it with his hand<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Even when it is in a vessel. ');">⁵¹</span>

כתחתון ולא כעליון ותניא אידך

but with an instrument?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The Heb. Keli may bear both significations. ');">⁵²</span>

כעליון ולא כתחתון ותניא אידך

— Come and hear: When he examines it<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The earthy water. ');">⁵³</span>

כעליון וכל שכן כתחתון ותניא אידך

he must do it in a cup only.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Which proves that no examination may be performed with the water and the earth in one's hand. ');">⁵⁴</span>

כתחתון וכל שכן כעליון

But does not the question yet remain: If the examination must be in a cup, wherewith must the stirring be done? — This is undecided.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Teku (v. Glos.). ');">⁵⁵</span>

אמר אביי

When they came before Rabba b. Abbuha he told them: What we learnt [about the earth refers to such as is] in its own place.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Exported earth changes its colour. ');">⁵⁶</span>

תלתא דרי ותלתא טרפן הויין נקוט דרא מציעאה וטרפא מציעתא בידך

R. Hanina used to break up a piece of potter's clay and thereby performed the examination. R. Ishmael son of R. Jose cursed with croup any other person who adopts such a method

כי אתו לקמיה דרבי אבהו אמר להו

בגושייהו שנינו

וכמימי אדמה

תנו רבנן

כמימי אדמה מביא אדמה שמנה מבקעת בית כרם ומציף עליה מים דברי רבי מאיר

רבי עקיבא אומר

מבקעת יודפת

רבי יוסי אומר

מבקעת סכני

רבי שמעון אומר

אף מבקעת גנוסר וכיוצא בהן

תניא אידך

וכמימי אדמה מביא אדמה שמנה מבקעת בית כרם ומציף עליה מים כקליפת השום ואין שיעור למים משום דאין שיעור לעפר

ואין בודקין אותן צלולין אלא עכורין

צללו חוזר ועוכרן

וכשהוא עוכרן אין עוכרן ביד אלא בכלי

איבעיא להו

אין עוכרין אותן ביד אלא בכלי דלא לרמיה בידיה ולעכרינהו אבל במנא כי עכר ליה בידיה שפיר דמי או דלמא

דלא לעכרינהו בידיה אלא במנא

ת"ש

כשהוא בודקן אין בודקן אלא בכוס

ועדיין תבעי לך

בדיקה בכוס עכירה במאי

תיקו

כי אתו לקמיה דרבה בר אבוה אמר להו

במקומה שנינו

רבי חנינא פלי קורטא דגרגשתא ובדיק ביה לייט עליה רבי ישמעאל ברבי יוסי באסכרה