Talmud for Shabbat 269:13

א"ל נתנה תורה

R. Joseph said: It is certainly a suppressed foreskin. R. Joseph said: Whence do I know it? Because it was taught, R. Eliezer ha-Kappar said: Beth Shammai and Beth Hillel do not disagree concerning him who is born circumcised, that one must cause a few drops of the covenant blood to flow from him. Concerning what do they differ? As to whether the Sabbath is desecrated on his account: Beth Shammai maintain, We desecrate the Sabbath on his account; while Beth Hillel rule: We must not desecrate the Sabbath on his account. Does it then not follow that the first Tanna holds, We desecrate the Sabbath for him?12 But perhaps the first Tanna maintains that all agree that we may not desecrate the Sabbath for him? — If so, R. Eliezer ha-Kappar comes to teach us Beth Shammai's view!13 But perhaps he means this: Beth Shammai and Beth Hillel did not disagree in this matter!<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Thus: the first Tanna maintains that Beth Shammai and Beth Hillel agree that we may not desecrate the Sabbath; hence their controversy must refer to weekdays, Beth Hillel holding that no blood-flow at all is required, whereupon R. Eleazar ha-Kappar stated that this is incorrect, there being no dispute in respect to weekdays, for even Beth Hillel necessitate a blood-flow, and they differ only in respect of the Sabbath. On this interpretation he informs us of Beth Hillel's view in respect to weekdays. ');">14 R. Assi said: He whose mother is defiled through confinement must be circumcised at eight [days], but he whose mother is not defiled through confinement<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' E.g., if the child is not born in the usual manner but extracted through the cesarean section; or if a Gentile woman gives birth and becomes a proselyte the following day. ');">15 is not circumcised on the eighth day,16 because it is said, If a woman conceive seed, and bear a man child, then she shall be unclean, etc. … And in the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised.17 Said Abaye to him, Let the early generations18 prove [the reverse], where the mother was not defiled through confinement,19 yet circumcision was of the eighth day!20 — The Torah was given, replied he,

Jerusalem Talmud Shabbat

“The drawn⁸⁹People originally circumcised who manipulated their penises (or had plastic surgery) to appear uncircumcised. They might have been forcibly circumcised in the general conscription ordered by Bar Kokhba. should not circumcise lest he get into danger, the words of Rebbi Jehudah. Rebbi Yose said to him, many drawn ones were in the days of Ben Koziba⁹⁰Bar Kokhba., they all circumcised, lived, and begat sons and daughters. One has to draw a drop of covenant blood from the drawn, the one born circumcised, and the circumcised convert. Rebbi Simeon ben Eleazar stated: The House of Shammai and the House of Hillel did not disagree that one has to draw a drop of covenant blood from the one born circumcised; because that is a compressed prepuce; what did they disagree about? About the convert who converted when already circumcised, for the House of Shammai said one has to draw a drop of covenant blood from him, but the House of Hillel say, one does not have to draw a drop of covenant blood from him.” Rebbi Issac bar Naḥman said in the name of Rebbi Hoshaia⁹¹Sifra Tazriaˋ Pereq 1(7); also Tosephta Šabbat 15:9; Babli Šabbat 135a; Gen. rabba 46(9).: Practice follows the words of the student⁹²R. Simeon ben Eleazar, a student of R. Jehudah who is quoted in a baraita in the Babli as stating that the Houses of Shammai and Hillel disagree about the child born without prepuce.. There came a case before Rav, who said: Since we have stated that it is a compressed prepuce⁹³Also in the Babli, Šabbat 135a, he is quoted as deciding practice following R. Jehudah., it is implied that he certainly is uncircumcised and one pushes the Sabbath away for him⁹⁶Babli Šabbat 135a. There, R. Ada bar Ahava accused himself of being punished for not following the ruling of his teacher Rav.. Rebbi Abbahu said, one does not push the Sabbath away for him but one has to draw a drop of covenant blood from him⁹⁵This is the uncontested anonymous decision of the Babli.. A son was born to Rav Ada bar Ahava in that condition⁹⁶Babli Šabbat 135a. There, R. Ada bar Ahava accused himself of being punished for not following the ruling of his teacher Rav.. He squeezed it, he died. Rebbi Abin said, testicles became injured and he fasted for him; he died. The rabbis of Caesarea said, his penis was damaged and he fasted for him; he died.

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