Chullin 185

Chapter 185

א חלב שהבשר חופה אותו מותר אלמא שעל הכסלים אמר רחמנא ולא שבתוך הכסלים הכא נמי שעל הכליות אמר רחמנא ולא שבתוך הכליות
1 Fat that is covered with flesh is permitted. It is evident therefore that the Divine Law spoke of that which is 'upon the loins'<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' In connection with sacrifices, e.g., Lev. III, 4. The prohibition of fat applies only to such fat as was burnt in a sacrifice on the altar.');"><sup>1</sup></span>
ב גופא אמר רבי אבא אמר רב יהודה אמר שמואל חלב שהבשר חופה אותו מותר איני והאמר רבי אבא אמר רב יהודה אמר שמואל האי תרבא דתותי מתני אסיר
2 and not of that which is in the loins; likewise here, the Divine Law spoke of that which is 'above the kidneys'<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' In connection with sacrifices, e.g., Lev. III, 4. The prohibition of fat applies only to such fat as was burnt in a sacrifice on the altar.');"><sup>1</sup></span> and not of that which is in the kidneys. [To revert to] the above text.
ג אמר אביי בהמה בחייה פרוקי מיפרקא אמר ר' יוחנן אנא לאו טבחא אנא ולאו בר טבחא אנא ונהירנא דהכי הוו אמרי בי מדרשא בהמה בחייה פרוקי מיפרקא
3 R'Abba said in the name of Rab Judah on the authority of Samuel: Fat that i covered with flesh is permitted'. But this cannot be, for has not R'Abba also said in the name of Rab Judah on the authority of Samuel that the fat which is under the loins is forbidden?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Although this fat is covered by the loins.');"><sup>2</sup></span> Abaye answered: An animal whilst alive has its limbs dislocated.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' When the animal is in motion its limbs and muscles slip away from their normal positions and are temporarily dislocated. Consequently the fat under the loins is not always covered with flesh, and it is therefore forbidden.');"><sup>3</sup></span> Even as R'Johanan said: 'I am no butcher nor the son of a butcher, but I remember this statement that was generally quoted in the Beth-Hamidrash, "An animal whilst alive has its limbs dislocated"'. R'Abba said in the name of Rab Judah who said it in the name of Samuel: The fat which is upon the omasum and reticulum is forbidden and one is liable to the penalty of Kareth on account of it; this is the fat that is 'upon the in wards'.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Referred to frequently in Scripture in connection with sacrifices, e.g., Lev. III, 3.');"><sup>4</sup></span>
ד אמר רבי אבא אמר רב יהודה אמר שמואל חלב שעל המסס ובית הכוסות אסורין וענוש כרת וזהו חלב שעל הקרב אמר ר' אבא אמר רב יהודה אמר שמואל האי תרבא דקליבוסתא אסור וענוש כרת וזהו חלב שעל הכסלים
4 R'Abba further said in the name of Rab Judah who said it in the name of Samuel: The fat which is upon the innominate bone<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., the hip-bone. According to Rashi the text refers to the sacrum. V. Katzenelsohn, p. 269, n. 2.');"><sup>5</sup></span> is forbidden and one is liable to the penalty of Kareth on account of it; this is the 'fa which is upon the loins'. R'Abba also said in the name of Rab Judah who said it in the name of Samuel: The small veins in the fore-limb are forbidden. Said R'Safra: You Moses!<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' A title of honour; or a form of oath, 'By Moses'! Cf. Bezah 38b.');"><sup>6</sup></span>
ה ואמר רבי אבא אמר רב יהודה אמר שמואל חוטין שביד אסורין אמר רב ספרא משה מי אמר רחמנא לא תיכול בישרא אמר רבא משה מי אמר רחמנא אכול דמא חתכיה ומלחיה אפילו לקדירה נמי שפיר דמי
5 Does the Divine Law forbid the eating of meat? - Raba replied: You Moses! Does the Divine Law allow the eating of blood? But if it [the fore-limb] was cut and salted it may even [be cooked] in a pot.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The veins in the fore-limb are forbidden only on account of the blood contained in them; if therefore the meat was cut up and the veins cut too, it is permitted for all purposes.');"><sup>7</sup></span> Rab Judah said in the name of Samuel: [The fat upon] the first cubit of the intestines must be scraped away; this is the fat upon the intestines.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' About which there was a dispute between R. Akiba and R. Ishmael, v. supra 49b.');"><sup>8</sup></span> Rab Judah said: The veins<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' These 'veins' or stringy fibers are forbidden as fat and are included in the prohibition of fat.');"><sup>9</sup></span> in the rump are forbidden. There are five veins<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' These 'veins' or stringy fibers are forbidden as fat and are included in the prohibition of fat.');"><sup>9</sup></span> in the loins, three on the right side and two on the left. Each one of the three veins branches into two, and each one of the two veins branches into three. The practical importance of this is that if one removes then, while the flesh is still warm they will slip out easily, otherwise one must follow them up [to this number].
ו אמר רב יהודה אמר שמואל ריש מעיא באמתא בעי גרירה וזהו חלב שעל הדקין
6 Abaye (others say: Rab Judah) said: There are five<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., there are five places where the veins are prohibited, either because of fat or of blood.');"><sup>10</sup></span> veins, three are forbidden on account of fat and two on account of blood.
ז ואמר רב יהודה חוטין שבעוקץ אסורין חמשא חוטי אית ביה בכפלא תלתא מימינא ותרתי משמאלא תלתא מפצלי לתרי תרי תרי מפצלי לתלתא תלתא נפקא מינה דאי שליף להו עד דחמימי משתלפי ואי לא בעי חטוטי בתרייהו
7 The veins in the spleen, in the loins and in the kidneys are forbidden on account of fat; those in the fore-limb and in the cheeks on account of blood.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The arteries of the neck, i.e., the carotid arteries, are certainly forbidden because of their blood; here however only the minor veins are reckoned.');"><sup>11</sup></span> What is the practical difference here? - Those forbidden on account of blood, if cut up and salted may be eaten; but the others have no remedy at all. R'Kahana (others say: Rab Judah) said: There are five membranes, three are forbidden on account of fat, and two on account of blood; that of the spleen, the loins, and the kidneys is forbidden on account of fat; that of the testicles and of the brain on account of blood. R'Judah B'Oshaia was once scraping [the fat from] the spleen for Levi the son of R'Huna B'Hiyya, and was cutting away [the fat] only at the upper end,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' At the thick part, i.e., the area of attachment to the rumen.');"><sup>12</sup></span>
ח אמר אביי ואיתימא רב יהודה חמשא חוטי הוו תלתא משום תרבא ותרין משום דמא דטחלי ודכפלי ודכוליתא משום תרבא דידא ודלועא משום דמא
8 whereupon the latter said to him, 'Go lower down too'. When his father came and found him doing this, he said: Thus said your mother's father (that is, R'Jeremiah B'Abba) in the name of Rab: The Torah forbade only [the fat] at the top.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lit., 'on the breast'; i.e., the membrane which lies over the thick part of the spleen. thb, thb, ht');"><sup>13</sup></span> But this surely cannot be, for R'Hamnuna reported that a Tanna taught: The membrane which is upon the spleen is forbidden but one is not liable on account of it. Now what can this mean?
ט למאי נפקא מינה הני דמשום דמא אי מחתך להו ומלח להו שפיר דמי הנך לית להו תקנתא
9 If it means, [the fat] which is at the top, then why is one not liable on account of it? It must therefore mean the fat over the whole [of the spleen]! - He replied: If it was so taught then it was taught.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' But I shall not alter my opinion on account of it. V. Rashi Nid. ');"><sup>14</sup></span>
י אמר רב כהנא ואיתימא רב יהודה חמשא קרמי הוו תלתא משום תרבא ותרי משום דמא דטחלי דכפלי ודכוליתא משום תרבא דביעי ודמוקרא משום דמא
10 [To revert to] the main text. R'Hamnuna reported, that a Tanna taught: The membrane which is upon the spleen is forbidden but one is not liable on account of it'. The membrane which is upon the kidney is forbidden but one is not liable on account of it.
יא רב יהודה בר אושעיא הוה קא קליף ליה טחלא ללוי בריה דרב הונא בר חייא הוה קא גאים ליה מעילאי א"ל חות ביה טפי אתא אבוה אשכחיה אמר ליה הכי אמר אבוה דאמך משום דרב ומנו רב ירמיה בר אבא לא אסרה תורה אלא שעל הדד בלבד
11 But it has been taught: One is liable on account of it!<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Both with regard to the spleen and the kidney.');"><sup>15</sup></span> - With regard to the spleen there is no contradiction because the latter ruling refers to the fat which is at the top and the former to that which is not at the top. And with regard to the kidney there is no contradiction because the latter ruling refers to the upper membrane<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' This is absolutely forbidden and entails the penalty of kareth.');"><sup>16</sup></span> and the former to the lower membrane. As to crushed<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' According to others, the testicles had been torn away and were lying loose in the scrotum.');"><sup>17</sup></span> testicles [there is a dispute between] R'Ammi and R'Assi, one forbids them and the other permits them.
יב איני והאמר רב המנונא תנא קרום שעל הטחול אסור ואין חייבים עליו היכי דמי אילימא שעל הדד אמאי אין חייבין עליו אלא דכוליה אמר ליה אי תניא תניא
12 He who forbids them [argues thus]:
יג גופא אמר רב המנונא תנא קרום שעל הטחול אסור ואין חייבין עליו קרום שעל גבי כוליא אסור ואין חייבין עליו והתניא חייבין עליו
13 
יד טחול אטחול לא קשיא הא כנגד הדד הא שלא כנגד הדד
14 
טו כוליא אכוליא נמי לא קשיא הא בעילאה הא בתתאה
15 
טז ביעי חשילתא רב אמי ורב אסי חד אסר וחד שרי מאן דאסר
16 
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