Chullin 222

שפיד כבדא עילוי בשרא אמר

putting liver on the spit on top of meat.'

כמה יהיר האי מרבנן

How presumptuous this young scholar is!' he exclaimed.'

אימר דאמור רבנן דיעבד לכתחלה מי אמור

The Rabbis may have permitted it after the act, but did they permit it in the first instance? ' But if a vessel was placed below to collect the drippings, even though the meat was on top of the liver, it is forbidden.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., the drippings of fat in the vessel are forbidden to be eaten because they are mingled with the blood drippings from the liver.');">¹</span>

ואי איכא בי דוגי בשרא עילוי כבדא נמי אסיר

But in what way is this different from the blood of flesh?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' V. infra 112a, where it is permitted to place a vessel below the roasting meat in order to collect the drippings of fat even though it collects at the same time blood drippings.');">²</span>

ומ"ש מדמא דבשרא

- The blood of flesh settles at the bottom of the vessel, whereas the blood of liver floats at the top.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' In the former case the fat can be poured off into another vessel leaving behind all the blood, in the latter case the blood is intermingled with the fat and the one cannot be separated from the other.');">³</span>

דמא דבשרא שכן דמא דכבדא קפי

R'Nahman said in the name of Samuel: The knife with which one slaughtered may not be used for cutting hot food;<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The throat at the time of slaughtering is deemed to be hot so that the knife during the act of cutting will have absorbed blood and will give it out again when used with hot food.');">⁴</span>

אמר רב נחמן אמר שמואל

as for cold food, some say it must be washed,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The cold food cut with this knife must be washed, so Rashi. Most commentators, including Maim., R. Gershom, and Tosaf. (supra ');">⁵</span>

סכין ששחט בה אסור לחתוך בה רותח

whilst others say, it need not be washed.

צונן אמרי לה

Rab Judah said in the name of Samuel: The vessel in which one salted meat may not be used for eating therein hot food.

בעיא הדחה ואמרי לה

This is in accord with Samuel's principle, for Samuel has stated: Whatsoever is salted is counted as hot, and whatsoever is preserved is counted as cooked.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' supra 97b. The vessel will therefore have absorbed blood by reason of the salting.');">⁶</span>

לא בעיא הדחה

When Rabin came [from Palestine] he reported in the name of R'Johanan.

אמר רב יהודה אמר שמואל

Whatsoever is salted is not counted as hot and whatsoever is preserved is not counted as cooked.

קערה שמלח בה בשר אסור לאכול בה רותח

Said Abaye.

ושמואל לטעמיה דאמר שמואל

This statement of Rabin cannot be upheld, for it once happened in the house of R'Ammi that an earthenware plate had been used for salting meat thereon and he broke It.

מליח הרי הוא כרותח וכבוש הרי הוא כמבושל

Now let us see.

כי אתא רבין א"ר יוחנן מליח אינו כרותח וכבוש אינו כמבושל אמר אביי

Was not R'Ammi a disciple of R'Johanan?

הא דרבין ליתא דההיא פינכא דהוה בי ר' אמי דמלח ביה בשרא ותבריה

Why then did he break [the plate]?

מכדי רבי אמי תלמיד דר' יוחנן הוה מאי טעמא תבריה

Surely because he had heard the statement from R'Johanan that whatsoever is salted is counted as hot.

לאו משום דשמיעא ליה מיניה דר' יוחנן דאמר

R'Kahana, the brother of Rab Judah, was sitting before R'Huna and recited as follows, The vessel in which one salted meat may not be used for eating therein hot food.

מליח הרי הוא כרותח

A radish which was cut with a meat knife may be eaten with a milk sauce.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Kutah, a preserve consisting of sour milk, breadcrust and salt. Even though the radish because of its pungency absorbed the fat that was congealed upon the knife.');">⁷</span>

יתיב רב כהנא אחוה דרב יהודה קמיה דרב הונא ויתיב וקאמר

Why the distinction? - Abaye answered: The latter absorbed what is permitted, the former what is forbidden.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The radish absorbed the fat of meat which is in no wise forbidden, whereas the vessel absorbed blood which is forbidden.');">⁸</span>

קערה שמלח בה בשר אסור לאכול בה רותח וצנון שחתכו בסכין מותר לאכלו בכותח

Said to him Raba.

מאי טעמא

But what difference does it make the fact that it absorbed what is permitted?

אמר אביי

After all what is permitted now will be forbidden later on,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' When it is dipped in the milk sauce, for then there is the combination of meat and milk.');">⁹</span>

האי היתרא בלע והאי איסורא בלע א"ל רבא

so that he will be eating that which is forbidden! Rather said Raba: [This is the distinction].

כי בלע היתרא מאי הוי

The latter can be tasted, the forme cannot.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The radish can be tasted by any person to ascertain whether or not the flavour of the meat is perceptible; but the food cooked in the vessel wherein meat had been salted, may not be tasted by a Jew, for fear that the flavour of the blood that was absorbed in the vessel will have passed into the food.');">¹⁰</span>

סוף סוף האי היתרא דאתי לידי איסורא הוא דאיסורא קאכיל

R'Papa said to Raba: But could not a gentile cook taste it?

אלא אמר רבא

Has it not been taught: In a pot wherein meat had been cooked a person may not boil milk, and if he did boil [milk] therein [it is forbidden] if the pot imparts a flavour [to the milk].

האי אפשר למטעמיה והאי לא אפשר למטעמיה

In a pot wherein terumah food had been cooked a person may not cook common food, and if he did cook [common food] therein, [it is forbidden] if the pot imparted a flavour [to the common food].

א"ל רב פפא לרבא

And when we put the question to you.

וליטעמיה קפילא ארמאה מי לא תנן קדרה שבישל בה בשר לא יבשל בה חלב ואם בשל בנותן טעם

In the case of terumah I grant you that a priest could taste the food; but in the case of meat and milk who may taste it?

בשל בה תרומה לא יבשל בה חולין ואם בשל בנותן טעם ואמרינן

You replied: A gentile cook could taste it.

בשלמא תרומה טעים לה כהן אלא בשר בחלב מאן טעים לה

Now in our case, too, could not a gentile cook taste it?

ואמר לן ליטעמיה קפילא

[He replied:] That is so, but I am speaking o case where there is no gentile cook available.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Where a gentile cook is available he may taste the food cooked in this vessel, and if he pronounces it to be absolutely free from the taste or flavour of blood it may then be eaten. So that in fact there is no distinction between the two cases cited by R. Kahana.');">¹¹</span>

ה"נ ליטעמיה קפילא

It was stated: If [hot] fish was served on a [meat] plate: Rab says: It is forbidden to eat it with milk sau Samuel says: It is permitted to eat it with milk sauce.'

ה"נ כי קאמינא דליכא קפילא:

Rab says: It is forbidden', because it imparted a flavour to it;<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The meat essence absorbed in the plate imparted its flavour to the fish.');">¹²</span>

איתמר דגים שעלו בקערה רב אמר

'Samuel says: It is permitted', because it imparted a flavour indirectly.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lit., 'that which gives a flavour the son of (i.e., derived from) that which gives a flavour'. Here the meat originally imparted a flavour to the plate and the plate to the fish; the fish, therefore, has a secondary or indirect taste of the meat, and this according to Samuel is negligible and of no consequence. However, it is conceded by Samuel that it is forbidden to drink hot milk out of a meat dish, for the dish has the first taste of the meat and this flavour, like the meat itself, is forbidden to eat with milk.');">¹³</span>

אסור לאכלן בכותח ושמואל אמר

This ruling of Rab, however, was not expressly stated by him but was inferred from the following incident.

מותר לאכלן בכותח

Rab once visited the house of R'Shimi B'Hiyya, his grandson.

רב אמר אסור נותן טעם הוא ושמואל אמר מותר נותן טעם בר נ"ט הוא

He felt a pain in his eyes and so they prepared for him an ointment on a dish.

והא דרב לאו בפירוש איתמר אלא מכללא איתמר

Later on he was served with stew in this same dish and he detected the taste of the ointment in it.

דרב איקלע לבי רב שימי בר חייא בר בריה חש בעיניו עבדו ליה שייפא בצעא

He remarked: 'Does it impart such a strong flavour? '<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., it is remarkable, thought Rab, that the flavour of the ointment should remain in the dish (which obviously was cleaned well) and be felt also in the food that was subsequently served in it. From this remark the Rabbis inferred that even the secondary or indirect taste is of consequence. This suggested inference is somewhat difficult for the case of the fish and the case of the ointment are not on all fours; v. however R. Nissim a.l.');">¹⁴</span>

בתר הכי רמו ליה בשולא בגווה טעים ליה טעמא דשייפא אמר

- But this does not prove anything; in that case it is different for the bitterness of the ointment is very pungent.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' [Rab therefore must have stated his rule expressly. Tosaf.]');">¹⁵</span>

יהיב טעמא כולי האי

R'Eleazar was once standing before Mar Samuel, who was being served with fish upon a [meat] plate and was eating it with milk sauce.

ולא היא שאני התם דנפיש מררה טפי

He [Samuel] offered him some but he would not eat it.

רבי אלעזר הוה קאים קמיה דמר שמואל אייתו לקמיה דגים שעלו בקערה וקא אכיל בכותח יהיב ליה ולא אכל

Samuel said to him, 'I once offered some to your Master<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Rab.');">¹⁶</span>

א"ל

and he ate it, and you won't eat it.'

לרבך יהיבי ליה ואכל ואת לא אכלת

He [R'Eleazar] then came to Rab and asked him, 'Has my Master withdrawn his view? ' He replied.

אתא לקמיה דרב א"ל

Heaven forfend that the son of Abba B'Abba<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., Samuel, whose father was Abba b. Abba.');">¹⁷</span>

הדר ביה מר משמעתיה

should give me to eat that which I do not hold [to be permitted]!<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' In other words, such a thing never occurred, for Rab maintains his view that it is forbidden.');">¹⁸</span>

א"ל

R'Huna and R'Hiyya B'Ashi were once sitting, one on the one side of the ferry of Sura and the other on the other side; one was served with fish on a [meat] plate which he ate with milk sauce; the other was served with figs and grapes in the course of the meal which he ate without reciting a benediction over them.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' These fruits are usually eaten after the meal and therefore when served in the course of the dinner one must recite the benediction over them, and one is not exempt with the benediction recited over the bread at the beginning of the dinner. V. Ber. 41b.');">¹⁹</span>

חס ליה לזרעיה דאבא בר אבא דליספי לי

One called out to the other, 'ignoramus,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lit., 'orphan'. i.e., without knowledge. A term of gentle rebuke.');">²⁰</span>

מידי ולא סבירא לי רב הונא ורב חייא בר אשי הוו יתבי חד בהאי גיסא דמברא דסורא וחד בהאי גיסא דמברא

would your master do so? ' The other called back, 'Ignoramus, would your master do so? ' The one answered and said: 'I accept Samuel's view.'<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' V. supra, that fish served on a meat plate may be eaten with milk sauce.');">²¹</span>

למר אייתו ליה דגים שעלו בקערה ואכל בכותח למר אייתו ליה תאנים וענבים בתוך הסעודה ואכל ולא בריך

The other answered: 'I hold the view of R'Hiyya.

מר א"ל לחבריה

For R'Hiyya taught:<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Ber. 41b.');">²²</span>

יתמא

[The benediction over] bread exempts all other kinds of food, and that over wine exempts all other kinds of drink [from the necessity of another benediction].'

עבד רבך הכי

Hezekiah said in the name of Abaye: The law is, fish that was served on a [meat] plate may be eaten with milk sauce, and a radish that was cut with a meat knife may not be eaten with milk sauce.

ומר א"ל לחבריה

This is so only in the case of a radish,

יתמא

עבד רבך הכי

מר א"ל לחבריה

אנא כשמואל סבירא לי ומר א"ל לחבריה

אנא כר' חייא סבירא לי

דתני ר' חייא

פת פוטרת כל מיני מאכל ויין פוטר כל מיני משקין

אמר חזקיה משום אביי הלכתא

דגים שעלו בקערה מותר לאוכלן בכותח צנון שחתכו בסכין שחתך בה בשר אסור לאוכלו בכותח

וה"מ צנון