Talmud Bavli
Talmud Bavli

Ketubot 71

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1

עריות ממש שניות מדברי סופרים כיון דמדאורייתא חזיא ליה אמאי אין להן קנס אלא עריות חייבי מיתות בית דין שניות חייבי כריתות אבל חייבי לאוין יש להן קנס ומני שמעון התימני היא

are really forbidden relations and prohibitions of the second degree [are those relations which were forbidden] by the rabbis, since she is permitted to him by the Torah, why should she not receive the fine? Rather, forbidden relations are those with regard to those punishable by death, prohibitions of the second degree are those punishable by karet. But in the case of prohibitions which are simply the transgression of a negative commandment, they do receive the fine. And whose opinion is it? [It is that of] Shimon the Yemenite.

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2

איכא דאמרי עריות חייבי מיתות ב"ד וחייבי כריתות שניות חייבי לאוין מני ר"ש בן מנסיא היא:

There are those who say: “Forbidden relations” are those punishable by death at the hand of the Court or karet, “prohibitions of the second degree” are prohibitions which are simply the transgression of a negative commandment. Whose opinion is this? That of R. Shimon b. Menassia.

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3

הממאנת אין לה לא קנס ולא פיתוי הא קטנה בעלמא אית לה מני רבנן היא דאמרי קטנה יש לה קנס אימא סיפא איילונית אין לה לא קנס ולא פיתוי אתא לר"מ דאמר קטנה אין לה קנס והא מקטנותה יצתה לבגר רישא רבנן וסיפא ר"מ

A woman who refuses her husband, has no claim to fine [for rape] or payment for seduction. But an ordinary minor has a claim [to the fine]. Whose opinion is this? It is the rabbis, who say: A minor receives the fine. Say now the other clause: “An aylonit has no claim to fine [for rape] or payment for seduction,” this accords with R. Meir, who says: The minor does not receive the fine; and this one went straight from her state as minor into adulthood. The first clause would then be according to the rabbis and the last clause according to R. Meir?

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4

וכ"ת כולה ר"מ היא ובממאנת סבר לה כרבי יהודה ומי סבר לה והתניא עד מתי הבת ממאנת עד שתביא שתי שערות דברי ר"מ ר' יהודה אומר עד שירבה שחור על הלבן

And if you would say that all of it accords with R. Meir, but in the case of the woman who refuses her husband he holds like R. Judah. But does he indeed hold the like [R. Judah]? Has it not been taught: Until when can the daughter exercise the right of refusal? Until she grows two hairs, the words of R. Meir. R. Judah says: Until the black is more than the white.

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5

אלא ר' יהודה היא ובקטנה סבר לה כר"מ ומי סבר לה והאמר רב יהודה אמר רב זו דברי ר"מ ואם איתא זו דברי ר"מ ור' יהודה מיבעי ליה האי תנא סבר לה כר"מ בחדא ופליג עליה בחדא

Rather it is according to R. Judah, and with regard to a minor he holds like R. Meir. But does he hold this view? Did not Rav Judah say in the name of Rav: “These are the words of R. Meir”? Now if it had been so, he ought to have said: “These are the words of R. Meir and R. Judah”? This tanna holds according to R. Meir in one thing and differs from him in one thing.

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6

רפרם אמר מאי ממאנת הראויה למאן וליתני קטנה קשיא:

Rafram says: What is a “woman who has refused marriage?” One who is able to refuse marriage. But then let it teach “a minor.” This is a difficulty.

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7

איילונית אין לה לא קנס ולא פיתוי ורמינהי החרשת והשוטה והאיילונית יש להן קנס ויש להן טענת בתולים והא מאי רומיא הא ר"מ הא רבנן ודקארי לה מאי קארי לה

[It was said above:] “An aylonit has no claim to a fine [for rape] or [payment] for seduction. They raised a contradiction: A woman who is a deaf-mute, or lacking sound senses, or an aylonit, has a claim to a fine [for rape], and a suit can be brought [by her husband] against her concerning her virginity. What contradiction is there? The one is according to R. Meir and the other is according to the Rabbis! But why did he even raise this as a difficulty?

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8

משום דאית ליה למירמא אחריתי עילויה החרשת והשוטה והבוגרת ומוכת עץ אין להן טענת בתולים הסומא ואיילונית יש להן טענת בתולים סומכוס אומר משום ר"מ סומא אין לה טענת בתולים

He wanted to raise another contradiction: A woman who is a deaf-mute, or lacking sound senses, or has reached maturity, or lost her virginity through an accident, her husband cannot bring a virginity claim against her; A woman who is blind or an aylonit, her husband cannot bring a virginity claim against her. Summachus says in the name of R. Meir: A blind woman, her husband cannot bring a virginity claim against her.

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9

אמר רב ששת לא קשיא הא רבן גמליאל והא ר' יהושע אימר דשמעת ליה לרבן גמליאל היכא דקא טענה איהי היכא דלא קא טענה איהי מי שמעת ליה אין כיון דאמר ר"ג מהימנא כגון זו (משלי לא, ח) פתח פיך לאלם הוא:

Sheshet said: This is not difficult: the one is according to R. Gamaliel and the other is according to R. Joshua. Say that R. Gamaliel holds this view when she makes this claim, but does he hold this view when she does not make a claim. Yes, since R. Gamaliel holds that she is believed, [we apply], in a case like this, [the verse], “Open thy mouth for the mute” )Proverbs 21:8).

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10

והבוגרת אין לה טענת בתולים: והאמר רב בוגרת נותנין לה לילה הראשון

A woman who has reached the age of maturity, one cannot bring against her a virginity claim. But did not Rav say: They give a woman who has reached the age of maturity the whole first night?

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