Niddah 49

פרשתבינא דפומבדיתא קאי ליה לאדא דיילא עד פלגיה וכולי עלמא קאי לפרשתבינא דפומבדיתא עד חרציה שאלו לפני רבי

Pushtabna<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Or (with Aruk) Pashtikna. Cur. edd., Parshtabina. One of the tallest men. ');">¹</span>

המפלת שפיר מלא בשר מהו

of Pumbeditha reached to<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lit., 'stood to him'. ');">²</span>

אמר להם

half the height of the waiter Adda, while everybody else reached only to the loins of Pushtabna of Pumbeditha.

לא שמעתי

A question was raised in the presence of Rabbi: What is the ruling where a woman aborted a sac full of flesh? 'I did not hear of such a law', he answered them. 'Thus', announced R. Ishmael son of R. Jose before him, 'said my father: If it was full of blood the woman is unclean as a menstruant, but if it was full of flesh she is unclean as a woman after childbirth'. The other said to him: Had you told us something new in the name of your father we would have listened to you; but now, since his first ruling<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' A sac filled with blood. ');">³</span>

אמר לפניו ר' ישמעאל בר' יוסי כך אמר אבא

was given in accordance with the view of an individual, viz., in agreement with Symmachus who cited R. Meir,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Supra 21b. ');">⁴</span>

מלא דם טמאה נדה מלא בשר טמאה לידה

his second ruling also<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' On a sac filled with flesh. ');">⁵</span>

א"ל

might be one given in accordance with the view of R. Joshua;<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Also an individual. ');">⁶</span>

אילמלי דבר חדש אמרת לנו משום אביך שמענוך עכשיו מדהא קמייתא כיחידאה קאמר כסומכוס שאמר משום ר"מ הא נמי שמא כרבי יהושע אמרה ואין הלכה כר' יהושע

but the <i>halachah</i> is not in agreement with R. Joshua. For it was taught: If an abortion was a sac with no fashioned limbs, R. Joshua ruled: It<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Even if it was filled with flesh only. ');">⁷</span>

דתניא המפלת שפיר שאינו מרוקם ר' יהושע אומר

is regarded as a valid birth<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' And the woman is unclean by reason of childbirth. ');">⁸</span>

ולד וחכ"א

but the Sages ruled, it is no valid birth.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Cf. prev. two notes. Since the Sages who are the majority differ from R. Joshua the halachah cannot be in agreement with his view. ');">⁹</span>

אינו ולד

R. Simeon b. Lakish citing R. Oshaia stated: The dispute<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Between R. Joshua and the Sages. ');">¹⁰</span>

אמר ר"ש בן לקיש משום ר' אושעיא

refers only to a sac that was turbid<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' In which case it may well be assumed that the foetus in it had been crushed. ');">¹¹</span>

מחלוקת בעכור אבל בצלול דברי הכל אינו ולד

but if it was clear<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Filled with clear water. ');">¹²</span>

ור' יהושע בן לוי אמר

all agree that it is no valid birth. R. Joshua b. Levi, however, stated: The dispute<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Between R. Joshua and the Sages. ');">¹⁰</span>

בצלול מחלוקת

refers to the case of a clear sac. The question was raised:<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' On R. Joshua b. Levi's statement. ');">¹³</span>

איבעיא להו

Do they differ only in the case of a clear sac but in that of a turbid one all agree that it is a valid birth or is it possible that they differ about the one as well as about the other? — This stands undecided.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Teku. ');">¹⁴</span>

בצלול מחלוקת אבל בעכור דברי הכל ולד או דלמא בין בזה ובין בזה מחלוקת

An objection was raised: This exposition was made by R. Joshua b. Hananiah: And the Lord God made for Adam and for his wife garments of skins, and clothed them<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Gen. III, 21. ');">¹⁵</span>

תיקו

teaches that the Holy One, blessed be He, makes no skin for man before<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lit., 'but if so', 'unless'. ');">¹⁶</span>

מיתיבי את זו דרש ר' יהושע בן חנניא

he is formed. Thus it is clearly proved that a valid birth<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lit., 'thing'. ');">¹⁷</span>

(בראשית ג, כא) ויעש ה' אלהים לאדם ולאשתו כתנות עור וילבישם מלמד שאין הקב"ה עושה עור לאדם אלא א"כ נוצר

depends on the skin irrespective of whether the sac was turbid or clear. Now if you grant<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' As R. Joshua b. Levi submitted. ');">¹⁸</span>

אלמא

that the dispute<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Between R. Joshua and the Sages. ');">¹⁹</span>

בעור תליא מילתא לא שנא עכור ול"ש צלול

refers to the case of a clear sac there is full justification for his<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' R. Joshua's. ');">²⁰</span>

אי אמרת בשלמא בצלול מחלוקת היינו דאיצטריך קרא אלא אי אמרת בעכור מחלוקת למה לי קרא

need for a Scriptural text;<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Since by showing that skin alone proves the existence of an embryo he can support his view against that of the Sages. ');">²¹</span>

סברא בעלמא הוא

but if you maintain<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' As Resh Lakish does. ');">²²</span>

אלא שמע מינה

that the dispute refers only to a turbid sac,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The reason for his view being not the presence of skin but the possibility that the embryo had been crushed. ');">²³</span>

בצלול מחלוקת שמע מינה

what need was there for a Scriptural text seeing that the reason<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' For being regarded as a valid birth. ');">²⁴</span>

וכן אמר ר"נ אמר רבה בר אבוה

is a matter of logic? Consequently it may be inferred that the dispute refers also to a clear sac.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' An objection thus remains against Resh Lakish. ');">²⁵</span>

מחלוקת בעכור אבל בצלול דברי הכל אינו ולד

This is conclusive.

איתיביה רבא לר"נ

R. Nahman citing Rabbah b. Abbuha also<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Like R. Oshaia. ');">²⁶</span>

אלא אמרו סימן ולד בבהמה דקה טינוף בגסה שליא

stated: They<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' R. Joshua and the Rabbis. ');">²⁷</span>

באשה שפיר ושליא ואילו שפיר בבהמה לא פטר

differ only in regard to a turbid sac but as regards a clear one all agree that it is no valid birth. Raba raised an objection against R. Nahman: But they ruled: The token of a valid birth<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' In respect of exempting the one born after it from the obligations of 'firstling' or 'first-born son'. ');">²⁸</span>

אי אמרת בשלמא בצלול מחלוקת משום הכי

in small cattle is a discharge from the womb,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' After a conception. ');">²⁹</span>

אשה דרבי בה קרא פטר בה שפיר בבהמה דלא רבי קרא לא פטר בה שפיר

in large cattle the placenta,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The young born after such a birth is not regarded as a firstling ');">³⁰</span>

אלא אי אמרת בעכור מחלוקת מכדי סברא הוא מאי שנא אשה ומאי שנא בהמה

and in a woman the sac or placenta',<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Bek. 19a. A son born after such an abortion is no 'first-born son. ');">³¹</span>

מי סברת רבי יהושע מפשט פשיט ליה

but, it follows, the abortion of a sac in cattle provides no exemption.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Of the next born young from the restrictions of a firstling. ');">³²</span>

רבי יהושע ספוקי מספקא ליה ואזיל הכא לחומרא והכא לחומרא

Now, if you grant that they<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' R. Joshua and the Rabbis. ');">²⁷</span>

גבי אשה דממונא הוא ספק ממונא לקולא

differ in the case of a clear sac, one can well see the reason why only a woman whose case Scripture specifically included,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' As deduced supra by R. Joshua b. Hananiah. ');">³³</span>

גבי בהמה דאיסורא הוא דאיכא לגבי גיזה ועבודה ספק איסורא לחומרא

was granted exemption in respect of a sac<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Bek. 19a. A son born after such an abortion is no 'first-born son. ');">³¹</span>

ה"נ גבי אשה ספק טומאה לחומרא

while cattle whose case Scripture did not include no exemption was granted in respect of a sac, but if you maintain that the dispute concerns only a turbid sac consider! [The question of the validity of the birth being dependent] on a logical reason<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' And not on a Scriptural text which specially refers to the human species. ');">³⁴</span>

ומי מספקא ליה

what difference in this respect could there be between a woman and cattle?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' If the foetus may be assumed to have been crushed in the one case why may it not be so assumed in the other? ');">³⁵</span>

והא קרא קאמר

— You think that R. Joshua was quite certain [of the nature of the sac],<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' That its abortion constitutes a valid birth. ');">³⁶</span>

מדרבנן וקרא אסמכתא בעלמא הוא

but the fact is that R. Joshua was rather doubtful on the matter and, therefore, he followed a restrictive course in both cases.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' In that of a firstling of cattle and in that of a woman's uncleanness (as will be explained presently). ');">³⁷</span>

א"ל רב חנינא בר שלמיא לרב

[Only the question of the firstborn son] of<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lit., 'at'. ');">³⁸</span>

הא רבי הא ר' ישמעאל בר' יוסי והא רבי אושעיא והא רבי יהושע בן לוי מר כמאן ס"ל

a woman, which is a mere monetary matter,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' A first-born son must be redeemed by the payment of five shekels to the priest. ');">³⁹</span>

א"ל

[did he rule that the abortion of a sac constitutes a valid birth,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' And the son born subsequently is no firstborn, and no redemption money on his behalf need be paid to the priest. ');">⁴⁰</span>

אני אומר אחד זה ואחד זה אינה חוששת

because] in a case of doubt in monetary matters a lenient course<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' In favour of the possessor of the money. ');">⁴¹</span>

ושמואל אמר

is followed.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The priest, therefore, cannot claim the redemption money (cf. prev. n. but one). ');">⁴²</span>

אחד זה ואחד זה חוששת

On the question of the firstling of cattle, however, which involves a ritual prohibition of shearing<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Its wool. ');">⁴³</span>

ואזדא שמואל לטעמיה דכי אתא רב דימי אמר

and of work<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' With the animal. It is forbidden to do any work with a firstling or to shear its wool (cf. Deut. XV, 19). ');">⁴⁴</span>

מעולם לא דכו שפיר בנהרדעא לבר מההוא שפירא דאתא לקמיה דשמואל דמנח עליה חוט השערה מהאי גיסא וחזיא מהאי גיסא אמר

[he ruled the abortion of a sac to be an invalid birth,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Thus imposing the restrictions of a firstling on the next born young. ');">⁴⁵</span>

אם איתא דולד הואי לא הוה זיג כולי האי

because] in case of doubt in a ritual prohibition a restrictive course must be followed; and so also [on the question of the uncleanness] of a woman [the abortion of a sac is deemed to be a valid birth,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Which imposes uncleanness upon the woman. ');">⁴⁶</span>

ואם היה מרוקם וכו'

because] in a case of doubtful uncleanness<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Also a ritual matter. ');">⁴⁷</span>

תנו רבנן

a restrictive course must be followed. But was he<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' R. Joshua. ');">⁴⁸</span>

איזהו שפיר מרוקם

in doubt?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Whether the abortion of a sac is a valid birth. ');">⁴⁹</span>

אבא שאול אומר

Did he not, in fact, quote a Scriptural text?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Gen. III, 21, supra, in support of his view, which proves that his ruling is Pentateuchal and definite. ');">⁵⁰</span>

תחלת ברייתו מראשו ושתי עיניו כשתי טיפין של זבוב

— The ruling is only Rabbinical<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Based, on account of the doubt, on the principle quoted supra. ');">⁵¹</span>

תני רבי חייא

and the Scriptural text is a mere prop.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' In support of the Rabbinical ruling. ');">⁵²</span>

מרוחקין זה מזה

Said R. Hanina b. Shelemya to Rab: We have<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Supra. ');">⁵³</span>

שני חוטמין כשתי טיפים של זבוב

the statements of<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lit., 'that'. ');">⁵⁴</span>

תני רבי חייא

Rabbi,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Who said (supra) 'I did not hear of such a law'. ');">⁵⁵</span>

ומקורבין זה לזה

of<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lit., 'that'. ');">⁵⁴</span>

ופיו מתוח כחוט השערה וגויתו כעדשה ואם היתה נקבה נדונה כשעורה לארכה

R. Ishmael son of R. Jose,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Who said, 'If it was full of flesh she is unclean'. ');">⁵⁶</span>

וחתוך ידים ורגלים אין לו ועליו מפורש בקבלה (איוב י, י) הלא כחלב תתיכני וכגבינה תקפיאני

of R. Oshaia<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Who said, 'The dispute refers only to a sac that was turbid'. ');">⁵⁷</span>

עור ובשר תלבישני ועצמות וגידים תסוככני

and of R. Joshua b. Levi;<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Who said, 'The dispute refers to the case of a clear sac'. ');">⁵⁸</span>

חיים וחסד עשית עמדי ופקודתך שמרה רוחי

with whose view does the Master agree? — I maintain, the other replied, that in neither case<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Neither in that of a turbid sac nor in that of a clear one. ');">⁵⁹</span>

ואין בודקין אותו במים שהמים עזין

need she take into consideration the possibility of a valid birth. Samuel, however, ruled: In either case<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Cf. prev. n. mut. mut. ');">⁶⁰</span> must she consider the possibility of a valid birth.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Sc. she must remain unclean for the prescribed period of childbirth uncleanness, but is not entitled to the privilege of the subsequent period of clean days. ');">⁶¹</span> Samuel in this ruling follows his previously expressed view. For R. Dimi when he came<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' From Palestine to Babylon. ');">⁶²</span> stated: Never at Nehardea<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The principal town under Samuel's jurisdiction. ');">⁶³</span> did they declare [one who aborted] a sac<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Even if there was no bleeding with the abortion. ');">⁶⁴</span> to be clean<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., to be exempt from the period of uncleanness prescribed for a woman after childbirth. ');">⁶⁵</span> except in the case of a certain sac that was submitted to Samuel on which a hair that lay on one side could be seen through the other side when he said: If it were in fact an embryo it would not have been so transparent. BUT IF ITS LIMBS WERE FASHIONED etc. Our Rabbis taught: What is meant by a sac the limbs of which are fashioned? Abba Saul explained: A foetus which in its primary stage resembles a locust,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Reading (with R. Han. and R. Tam) kerashom (cf. Aruk.) Cur. edd. 'from its head'. ');">⁶⁶</span> and its two eyes are like two drippings<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Cf. Jast. 'Eyes' (Rashi). ');">⁶⁷</span> of a fly. R. Hiyya taught: They are far removed from one another. Its two nostrils are like two drippings of a fly. R. Hiyya taught: They are near one to another. Its mouth is as narrow as a stretched hair,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lit., 'stretched as a hair thread'. ');">⁶⁸</span> its membrum<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' When sex is distinguishable. ');">⁶⁹</span> is of the size of a lentil<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The case spoken of in our Mishnah (q.v.) is one of doubtful sex. ');">⁷⁰</span> and in the case of a female [the organ] has the appearance of the longitudinal [slit]<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Cf. the reading of 'En Jacob and infra 25b. ');">⁷¹</span> of a barley grain; but it has no shaped hands or feet.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Sc. fingers and toes are not yet articulated. ');">⁷²</span> Of such a foetus there is this description in the post-Pentateuchal Scriptures:<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lit., 'acceptance', 'tradition'. ');">⁷³</span> Hast thou not poured me out as milk, and curdled me like cheese? Thou hast clothed me with skin and flesh and knit me together with bones and sinews. Thou hast granted me life and favor, and Thy providence hath preserved my spirit.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Job X, 10-12. ');">⁷⁴</span> It<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' A foetus in the conditions described. ');">⁷⁵</span> must not be examined in water because water is hard<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lit., 'strong'. ');">⁷⁶</span>