Niddah 52

Chapter 52

א תנורי בנות טפח דתניא תנור תחלתו ארבעה ושיריו ד' דברי רבי מאיר

1 the law of ovens of the size of one handbreadth?1 For we learnt:2

ב וחכמים אומרים במה דברים אמורים בגדול אבל בקטן תחלתו כל שהוא משתגמר מלאכתו ושיריו ברובו

2 — An oven [if it is to be susceptible to uncleanness must] ab initio3 be no less than four handbreadths high, and what remains of it4 must5

ג וכמה כל שהוא אמר רבי ינאי טפח שכן עושין תנורי בנות טפח בפלוגתא לא קמיירי

3 be no less than four handbreadths high; so R. Meir. But the Sages ruled: This applies only to a big oven but if it is a small one [it is susceptible to uncleanness] ab initio, after its manufacture is completed, whatever its size, and what is left of it [remains unclean] if it was the greater part of it.6 And [to the question] what is meant by 'whatever its size', R. Jannai replied: One handbreadth, since ovens of the height of one handbreadth are made!7 — He8 did not speak of laws about which a divergence of view exists.9

ד השתא דאתית להכי הא נמי פלוגתא היא דקתני סיפא אמר ר' יהודה לא אמרו טפח אלא מן התנור ולכותל

4 Now that you have arrived at this argument that law10 [it may be explained]11 is also one in dispute, for in the final clause it was stated: R. Judah said, They spoke of the length of a handbreadth only between the oven and the wall.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Near which the oven is placed. Where a stone is of greater length it prevents the oven from being brought up to the wall and is removed in consequence. Only in such a case is the size restricted to a handbreadth. Where, however, the stone projects on another side, since it would not be removed, it is regarded as a handle. ');">12

ה והאיכא מסגרת טפח בדכתיבן לא קא מיירי והאיכא כפורת טפח בקדשים לא קמיירי

5 But is there not also a border of a handbreadth?13 — He does not deal with sizes that are prescribed in Scripture. But is there not the ark-cover that was one handbreadth thick?14 — He8 does not discuss holy things. But is there not [the following law]: It suffices for a cross-beam15

ו והאיכא דיה לקורה שהיא רחבה טפח בדרבנן לא קמיירי אלא בדכתיבן ולא מפרשי שיעורייהו

6 to be one handbreadth wide?16 — He17 does not discuss Rabbinical laws.18

ז יתיב רב יצחק בר שמואל בר מרתא קמיה דרב כהנא ויתיב וקאמר אמר רב יהודה אמר רב כל שלשה ימים הראשונים תולין את השליא בולד מכאן ואילך חוששין לולד אחר

7 [He was concerned only] with such as are prescribed in Scripture and in connection with which no sizes19 have been specified.

ח אמר ליה ומי אמר רב הכי והאמר רב אין הולד מתעכב אחר חבירו כלום אישתיק אמר ליה דלמא כאן בנפל כאן בבן קיימא

8 R. Isaac b. Samuel b. Martha once sat at his studies before R. Kahana and in the course of the session he observed: Rab Judah citing Rab laid down that throughout the first three days20 the placenta21 is attributed to the child,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' That was born. The days of the woman's uncleanness and cleanness are consequently reckoned from the day of the child's birth and not from the latter day on which the placenta issued. ');">22 but henceforth the possibility of the birth of a second child23 must be considered.24 Said the other to him: But could Rab have said such a thing? Did not Rab in fact state, 'One child is not detained at all after the other [had been born]'?25 The first remained silent. Said the other to him: Is it not possible that one statement26

ט אמר ליה את אמרת לשמעתתיה דרב בפירוש אמר רב הכי הפילה נפל ואחר כך הפילה שליא כל שלשה ימים תולין את השליא בולד מכאן ואילך חוששין לולד אחר ילדה ואח"כ הפילה שליא אפילו מכאן ועד עשרה ימים אין חוששין לולד אחר

9 referred to an abortion, while the other27 referred to a child that was viable? — You, the first28 answered, have indeed stated Rab's actual rulings, for Rab has explicitly made the following statement: If a woman aborted an embryo and after that she aborted a placenta, if this occurred within three days29 the placenta is attributed to the embryo, but if it occurred at any subsequent time the possibility of the abortion of a second embryo must be taken into consideration. If, however, she gave birth to a normal child and subsequently aborted a placenta, even if that occurred between that moment and ten days later,30 the possibility of the abortion of a second child31

י שמואל ותלמידי דרב ורב יהודה הוו יתבי חליף ואזיל רב יוסף בריה דרב מנשיא מדויל לאפייהו באלי ואתי אמר אתי לן גברא דרמינן ליה בגילא דחטתא ומרמי ומדחי

10 need not be considered at all. Samuel and the disciples of Rab and Rab Judah32 were once sitting at their studies when R. Joseph the son of R. Menashya of Dewil passed along in great haste. 'There comes towards us', he exclaimed, 'a man whom we can throw down with a piece of straw<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lit., 'straw of the wheat'. Metaphor: The man could be upset by the simplest of arguments. Aliter: On whom we may throw wheat-chaff, i.e., embarrass with petty questions (Jast.). ');">33

יא אדהכי אתא אמר ליה שמואל מאי אמר רב בשליא א"ל הכי אמר רב אין תולין את השליא אלא בדבר של קיימא שיילינהו שמואל לכל תלמידי דרב ואמרי ליה הכי הדר חזייה לרב יהודה בישות

11 and he would allow himself to be thrown down and pushed out'.34 In the meanwhile he approached them. What, said Samuel to him, did Rab rule in regard to a placenta? — Thus, the other replied, said Rab: The placenta may be attributed only to a child that is viable.35 Samuel then put the question to all the disciples of Rab and they told him the same thing. Thereupon he turned round and looked at Rab Judah with displeasure.36 R. Jose b. Saul enquired of Rabbi: What is the law where there was an abortion in the shape of a raven and [this was followed by] a placenta?37 — The other replied: We can attribute a placenta only to an embryo in whose species38 the placenta is [one of their organs].39

יב בעא מיניה רבי יוסי בן שאול מרבי המפלת דמות עורב ושליא מהו אמר ליה אין תולין אלא בדבר שיש במינו שליא

12 What is the law where the placenta is tied to it?40 — You, the other replied, have asked a question about that which does not exist. He raised an objection against him: If a woman aborted something in the shape of a beast, a wild animal or a bird, and a placenta with them, whenever the placenta is attached to it there is no need to take into consideration the possibility of the existence of a second embryo, but if no placenta is attached to it the possibility of the existence of a second embryo41 must be considered, and one42 must [impose on the woman] on account of them43

יג קשורה בו מהו אמר ליה דבר שאינו שאלת איתיביה המפלת מין בהמה חיה ועוף ושליא עמהן בזמן שהשליא קשורה עמהן אין חוששין לולד אחר אין שליא קשורה עמהן חוששין לולד אחר הריני מטיל עליהן

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