Eruvin 125

רב המנונא אורי בחרתא דארגז בשני דרב חסדא

R'Hamnuna decided legal points at Harta<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' MS.M.: Hadeta'. ohbutdv ,cua,');">¹</span> di Argiz<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Harta of Argiz, the name of the person who built the town of Harta. Rashi: in the name of . cr');">²</span> during the lifetime of R'Hisda.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Whose colleague and disciple he was (cf. Tosaf. s.v. a.l.) . [R. Hisda was at that time head of the School at Sura which comprised within its jurisdiction Harta di Argiz, Obermeyer, loc. cit.].');">³</span>

רבינא סר סכינא בבבל א"ל רב אשי מאי טעמא עבד מר הכי

Rabina examined the slaughterer's knife<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Used in the ritual slaughter of clean beasts and fowls. Such a knife, in order to reduce the pain of the animal to the lowest minimum, must he carefully ground until a very fine edge is obtained, and before use must also be submitted to the highest local religious authority for examination.');">⁴</span> in Babylon.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Though his Master, R. Ashi, was the supreme religious authority at Matha Mehasia, a place near Sura. [The town Babylon was in the neighbourhood of Sura, v. Obermeyer p. 304].');">⁵</span> Said R'Ashi to him, 'Why does the Master act in this manner? ' 'Did not,' the other replied: R'Hamnuna decide legal points at Harta di Argiz during the lifetime of R'Hisda? '<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' As R. Hamnuna, though a disciple of R. Hisda, was allowed to give legal decisions in a Babylonian town because R. Hisda, the supreme religious chief, resided in another part of Babylon so, Rabina submitted, was he also allowed to occupy the position of local religious authority in respect of the examination of the slaughtering knife in a town in which R. Ashi himself did not reside.');">⁶</span>

א"ל והא רב המנונא אורי בחרתא דארגז בשני דרב חסדא אמר ליה לאו אורי אתמר

- 'It was stated', the first retorted: 'that he did not decide legal points'.' The fact is', the other replied: 'that one statement was made that he did decide legal points while another was that he did not do so, and the explanation is that only during the lifetime of his Master R'Huna did he decide no legal points but during the lifetime of R'Hisda, who was both his colleague and disciple, he did decide legal points, and I too am the Master's colleague as well as disciple'. Raba said: A young scholar may examine his own knife.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Cf. supra n. 1. He need not submit it for examination to the supreme local religious authority if he is using it himself- for his own beast.');">⁷</span>

אמר ליה אתמר אורי ואתמר לא אורי בשני דרב הונא רביה הוא דלא אורי ואורי בשני דרב חסדא דתלמיד חבר דיליה הוה ואנא נמי תלמיד חבר דמר אנא

Rabina once visited Mahuza when his host brought to him a slaughtering knife for examination.' Go', he<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Rabina.');">⁸</span> said to him, 'take it to Raba'.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Who was the religious head of the locality.');">⁹</span>

אמר רבא צורבא מרבנן חזי לנפשיה רבינא איקלע למחוזא אייתי אושפיזכניה סכינא וקא מחוי ליה אמר ליה זיל אמטייה לרבא

'Does not the Master', the other asked: 'uphold the ruling laid down by Raba that a young scholar may examine his own knife? ' - 'I', he<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Rabina.');">⁸</span> replied, am only buying the meat'.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' From the innkeeper, sc. as the beast was not being killed exclusively for his own use the examination of the knife does not come under the ruling cited.');">¹⁰</span> ¹¹ Zila of<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' So Bah. Cur. edd. 'to Hania'.');">¹²</span>

אמר ליה לא סבר מר הא דאמר רבא צורבא מרבנן חזי לנפשיה אמר ליה אנא מיזבן זבינא

Hania<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' R. Eleazar of Hagronia. ;kj');">¹³</span> changes<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' R. Abba b. Tahlifa (rt. 'change') .');">¹⁴</span> Ika<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' R. Aha son of R. Ika.');">¹⁵</span>

(סימן זיל"א להני"א מחלי"ף איק"א ויעק"ב)

and Jacob.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' R. Aha b. Jacob.');">¹⁶</span> "&gt; R'Eleazar of Hagronia<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Near Nehardea.');">¹⁷</span>

רבי אלעזר מהגרוניא ורב אבא בר תחליפא איקלעו לבי רב אחא בריה דרב איקא באתריה דרב אחא בר יעקב בעי רב אחא בריה דרב איקא למיעבד להו עיגלא תילתא אייתי סכינא וקא מחוי להו

and R'Abba B'Tahlifa once visited R'Aha son of R'Ika's house in the district that was subject to the jurisdiction of R'Aha B'Jacob. R'Aha son of R'Ika, desiring to prepare for them a third-grown<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Aliter: Third-born. Aliter: In its third year.');">¹⁸</span> calf, presented to them the slaughtering knife for examination.'

אמר להו רב אחא בר תחליפא לא ליחוש ליה לסבא אמר להו ר"א מהגרוניא הכי אמר רבא צורבא מרבנן חזי לנפשיה חזי ואיעניש רבי אלעזר מהגרוניא

Should no consideration be shown for the old man? '<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' R. Aha b. Jacob who was the supreme religious head of the place and whose prerogative it was to examine the instrument.');">¹⁹</span> R'Aha B'Tahlifa asked.' Thus', R'Eleazar of Hagronia replied: 'said Raba: A young scholar may examine his own knife'.

והאמר רבא צורבא מרבנן חזי לנפשיה שאני התם דאתחילו בכבודו

R'Eleazar of Hagronia<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Or 'he', omitting the name with MS.M.');">²⁰</span> thereupon examined the knife and was providentially punished for his disrespect. But did not Raba lay down, 'A young scholar 'lay examine his own knife'? - There the case was different since they began to discuss the question of his<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' R. Aha b. Jacob who was the supreme religious head of the place and whose prerogative it was to examine the instrument.');">¹⁹</span>

ואי בעית אימא שאני רב אחא בר יעקב דמופלג

dignity. And if you prefer I might reply: R'Aha B'Jacob was different from other local authorities since he was a man of great distinction. Raba ruled: When it is a question of preventing one from committing a transgression it is quite proper [for a disciple to give a legal decision] even in his Master's presence.

אמר רבא ולאפרושי מאיסורא אפילו בפניו שפיר דמי רבינא הוה יתיב קמיה דרב אשי חזייה לההוא גברא דקא אסר ליה לחמריה בצינתא בשבתא רמא ביה קלא ולא אשגח ביה א"ל ליהוי האי גברא בשמתא

Rabina once sat in the presence of R'Ashi when he observed that a certain person was tying his ass to a palm-tree on the Sabbath day.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The use of a growing tree on the Sabbath is Rabbinically forbidden.');">²¹</span> He called out to him but the other took no notice.' Let this man' he called out, 'be placed under the ban'.'

א"ל כי האי גוונא מי מתחזא כאפקרותא אמר ליה (משלי כא, ל) אין חכמה ואין תבונה ואין עצה לנגד ה' כל מקום שיש בו חילול השם אין חולקין כבוד לרב

Does such an act as mine',<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Acting in the presence of the religious head of the place.');">²²</span> he<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Rabina.');">²³</span> then asked [R'Ashi], 'appear as an impertinence? ' - There is no wisdom for understanding nor counsel against the Lord,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Prov. XXI, 30.');">²⁴</span>

אמר רבא בפניו אסור וחייב מיתה שלא בפניו אסור ואין חייב מיתה

wherever the divine name is being profaned no respect is to be shown to one's Master.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Wisdom etc. of one's Master are regarded as of no consequence when an act is committed against the Lord.');">²⁵</span> Raba ruled: In the presence of one's Master it is forbidden [to give a legal decision]<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Except, as stated supra, where the profanation of the divine name is at stake.');">²⁶</span> under the penalty of death;<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' At the hands of Heaven.');">²⁷</span>

ושלא בפניו לא והא תניא ר"א אומר לא מתו בני אהרן עד שהורו הלכה בפני משה רבן מאי דרוש (ויקרא א, ז) ונתנו בני אהרן הכהן אש על המזבח אמרו אף על פי שהאש יורדת מן השמים מצוה להביא מן ההדיוט

in his absence this is forbidden but the penalty of death is not incurred. Is then no penalty of death incurred in his absence? Was it not in fact taught: R'Eliezer B'Jacob<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' So Bah. Cur. edd. omit the last two words.');">²⁸</span>

ותלמיד אחד היה לו לרבי אליעזר שהורה הלכה בפניו אמר רבי אליעזר לאימא שלום אשתו תמיה אני אם יוציא זה שנתו ולא הוציא שנתו

stated: The sons of Aaron died<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Cf. Lev. X, 1f.');">²⁹</span> only because they gave a legal decision in the presence of their Master Moses. What was the exposition they made?

אמרה לו נביא אתה אמר לה לא נביא אנכי ולא בן נביא אנכי אלא כך מקובלני כל המורה הלכה בפני רבו חייב מיתה

And the sons of Aaron the priest shall put fire upon the altar;<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Ibid. I, 7.');">³⁰</span> although, they said, fire came down from heaven<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' V. ibid. IX, 24.');">³¹</span> it is nevertheless a religious duty to bring also some ordinary fire.

ואמר רבה בר בר חנה אמר רבי יוחנן אותו תלמיד יהודה בן גוריא שמו והיה רחוק ממנו שלש פרסאות

R'Eliezer, furthermore, had a disciple who once gave a legal decision in his presence.' I wonder', remarked R'Eliezer to his wife, Imma Shalom, 'whether this man will live through the year'; and he actually did not live through the year.' Are you', she asked him,'a prophet? ' 'I', he replied: 'am neither a prophet for the son of a prophet, but I hav this tradition: Whosoever gives a legal decision in the presence of his Master incurs the penalty of death'.)

בפניו הוה והא רחוק ממנו שלש פרסאות קאמר וליטעמיך שמו ושם אביו למה אלא שלא תאמר משל היה

Now, in connection with this incident Rabbah B'Bar Hana related in the name of R'Johanan: That disciple's name was Judah B'Goria and he was three parasangs distant from his Master?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' When he gave the legal decision mentioned; which shows that the penalty of death is incurred even where a decision is given in the Master's absence. An objection against Raba's last cited statement.');">³²</span> - He was in his presence.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' At the time he gave the legal decision. The distance of three parasangs mentioned referred only to that of the disciple's usual place of residence from the residence of his Master.');">³³</span> But was it not stated that 'he was three parasangs distant'?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' If the distance had no connection with the place where the decision was given what was the point in mentioning it at all? h,kvz kvz');">³⁴</span>

אמר ר' חייא בר אבא אמר רבי יוחנן כל המורה הלכה בפני רבו ראוי להכישו נחש שנאמר (איוב לב, ו) ויען אליהוא בן ברכאל הבוזי ויאמר צעיר אני לימים וגו' על כן זחלתי וכתיב (דברים לב, כד) עם חמת זוחלי עפר

- And according to your conception what need was there for the mention of his name and the name of his father? But the fact is that all the details were given in order that it be not said that the whole story was a fable. R'Hiyya B'Abba stated in the name of R'Johanan: Whoever gives a legal decision in the presence of his Master deserves to be bitten by a snake, for it is said: And Elihu the son of Barachel the Buzite answered and said: I am young, etc. wherefore I held back,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' rt. Job. XXXII, 6.');">³⁵</span>

זעירי אמר רבי חנינא נקרא חוטא שנאמר (תהלים קיט, יא) בלבי צפנתי אמרתך למען לא אחטא לך

and elsewhere<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Cf. Bah. hkjuz kjz');">³⁶</span> it is written: With the venom of crawling things<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' rt. .');">³⁷</span> of the dust.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., snakes. Deut. XXXII, 24.');">³⁸</span>

רב המנונא רמי כתיב בלבי צפנתי אמרתך וכתיב (תהלים מ, י) בשרתי צדק בקהל רב לא קשיא כאן בזמן שעירא היאירי קיים כאן בזמן שאין עירא היאירי קיים

Ze'iri stated in the name of R'Hanina: He is called a sinner, for it is said: Thy word have I laid up in my heart,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' He refrained from giving legal decisions in the presence of his Masters.');">³⁹</span> that I might not sin against Thee.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Ps. CXIX, 11.');">⁴⁰</span> R'Hamnuna pointed out an incongruity: It is written: Thy word have I laid up<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' He refrained from giving legal decisions in the presence of his Masters.');">³⁹</span>

אמר רבי אבא בר זבדא כל הנותן מתנותיו לכהן אחד מביא רעב לעולם שנאמר (שמואל ב כ, כו) עירא היאירי היה כהן לדוד לדוד הוא דהוה כהן לכו"ע לא אלא שהיה משגר לו מתנותיו וכתיב בתריה ויהי רעב בימי דוד

in my heart,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Ps. CXIX, 11.');">⁴⁰</span> and it is also written: I preached righteousness in a great congregation.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Ibid. XL, 10.');">⁴¹</span> - This is really no contradiction, the former relating to the time when Ira the Jairite<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' David's teacher (cf. II Sam. XX, 26) .');">⁴²</span>

ר' אליעזר אומר מורידין אותו מגדולתו שנאמר (במדבר לא, כא) ויאמר אלעזר הכהן אל אנשי הצבא וגו' אע"ג דאמר להו לאחי אבא צוה ואותי לא צוה אפ"ה איענש

was still alive while the latter relates to the time when Ira the Jairite was no longer alive. R'Abba B'Zabda<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' En Jacob and Asheri read: 'R. Abba b. Kahana'; MS.M., 'R. Kahana'.');">⁴³</span> stated: Whoever gives<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Var. lec. 'sends' (MS.M. Ct Jacob and Asheri) .');">⁴⁴</span>

דכתיב (במדבר כז, כא) ולפני אלעזר הכהן יעמד ולא אשכחן דאיצטריך ליה יהושע

his priestly gifts to one priest [only] brings famine into the world. For it is said in Scripture: Ira the Jairite was priest to David.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' II Sam. XX, 26.');">⁴⁵</span> Now was he priest to David alone and not to all the world?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Of course not. A priest obviously enjoys that dignity before all 'Ben.');">⁴⁶</span>

א"ר לוי כל דמותיב מלה קמיה רביה אזיל לשאול בלא ולד שנאמר (במדבר יא, כח) ויען יהושע בן נון משרת משה מבחוריו ויאמר אדוני משה כלאם

But the meaning is that David sent to him<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' And to no other priest.');">⁴⁷</span> his priestly gifts; and this is followed b the text: And there was a famine in the days of David.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Ibid. XXI, 1.');">⁴⁸</span> R'Eliezer<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Var. lec. 'Eleazar'.');">⁴⁹</span> said: He<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Who gives a legal decision in the presence of his Master.');">⁵⁰</span> is deprived of his greatness - For it is said: And Eleazar the priest said unto the men of war. This is the statute of the law which the Lord hath commanded Moses;<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Num. XXXI, 21.');">⁵¹</span> although he thus said to them, 'He commanded my father's brother<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Moses.');">⁵²</span> and not me'<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Thus acknowledging that the statute he was teaching them was taught to him by his Master Moses.');">⁵³</span> he was nevertheless punished,'<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' For promulgating it in the presence of the Master.');">⁵⁴</span> as it is written: And he<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Joshua.');">⁵⁵</span> shall stand before Eleazar the priest<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Num. XXVII, 21, i.e., Joshua will have to submit his doubts and difficulties to Eleazar.');">⁵⁶</span> and yet we do not find that Joshua ever needed his guidance. R'Levi stated: He who answers a word<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' To a question submitted.');">⁵⁷</span> in the presence of his Master goes down to Sheol childless; for it says in Scripture: And Joshua the son of Nun, the minister of Moses from his youth up, answered and said: 'My lord Moses, shall them in'<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Nun. Xl, 28. 'Kela'em', an answer in one word.');">⁵⁸</span>