Kiddushin 142

כאן להשיאו אשה כאן להוציא אשה מידו

here it is to permit him to take a wife; there it is to take the wife from him.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., to order him to divorce her. When one wishes to marry a woman of proved pure descent, he must prove his own fitness, if he lacks the established presumption. On the other hand, if he is married to such, he is not compelled to divorce her unless his own unfitness is established.');">¹</span> R'Joseph said: He whose speech is Babylonian is permitted to take a wife [of superior birth]. But nowadays that there are dissemblers, we fear [them].<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' This is not accepted as sufficient proof.');">²</span>

אמר רב יוסף כל שסיחתו בבבל משיאין לו אשה והאידנא דאיכא רמאי חיישינן

Ze'iri was evading R'Johanan, who was urging him, 'Marry my daughter.'<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Ze'iri being a Babylonian, whilst R. Johanan was only a Palestinian, he did not wish to marry his daughter, since the former are of purer birth.');">³</span> One day they were travelling on a road, when they came to a pool of water. Thereupon he placed R'Johanan on his shoulder and carried him across.

זעירי הוה קא מישתמיט מיניה דר' יוחנן דהוה אמר ליה נסיב ברתי יומא חד הוו קאזלי באורחא מטו לעורקמא דמיא ארכביה לר' יוחנן אכתפיה וקא מעבר ליה א"ל אורייתן כשרה בנתין לא כשרן מאי דעתיך

Said he to him: 'Our learning is fit but our daughters are not? [On] what is your view [based]? Shall we say, because we learned, TEN GENEALOGICAL CLASSES WENT UP FROM BABYLON: PRIESTS, LEVITES [etc.]?

אילימא מדתנן עשרה יוחסין עלו מבבל כהני לויי אטו כהני לויי וישראלי כולהו סליקו כי היכי דאישתיור מהני אישתיור נמי מהני אישתמיטתיה הא דאמר ר"א לא עלה עזרא מבבל עד שעשאה כסולת נקייה ועלה

Did then all the priests, Levites and Israelites go up? just as some of these were left, so were some of those [the unfit enumerated in the Mishnah] left [in Babylon].'<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' So that both are equal.');">⁴</span> He [however] overlooked what R'Eleazar said: Ezra did not go up from Babylon until he made it like pure fine flour: then he went up.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' V. p. 350, n. 2.');">⁵</span>

עולא איקלע לפומבדיתא לבי רב יהודה חזייה לרב יצחק בריה דרב יהודה דגדל ולא נסיב א"ל מאי טעמא לא קא מנסיב ליה מר איתתא לבריה א"ל מי ידענא מהיכא אנסיב אמר ליה אטו אנן מי ידעינן מהיכא קאתינן דילמא מהנך דכתיב (איכה ה, יא) נשים בציון ענו בתולות בערי יהודה

'Ulla visited Rab Judah in Pumbeditha. Seeing that R'Isaac, the son of Rab Judah, was grown up, yet unmarried,<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' On the importance of not leaving marriage too late cf. supra, 29b, 30a.');">⁶</span> he asked him, 'Why have you not taken a wife for your son? ' 'Do I then know whence to take one? ' he replied.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I do not know who is of pure descent.');">⁷</span>

וכי תימא עובד כוכבים ועבד הבא על בת ישראל הולד כשר ודילמא מהנך דכתיב בהו (עמוס ו, ד) השוכבים על מטות שן וסרוחים על ערסותם ואמר רבי יוסי בר' חנינא אלו בני אדם המשתינים מים בפני מטותיהם ערומים

'Do we know whence we are descended? ' he retorted.' Perhaps from those of whom it is written: They ravished the women in Zion, the maidens in the cities of Judah.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lam. V, 11.');">⁸</span> And should you answer: If a heathen or slave has intercourse with the daughter of an Israelite, the issue is fit, - then perhaps [we are descended] from those of whom it is written, that lie upon beds of ivory, and stretch themselves [seruhim] upon their couches.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Amos VI, 4.');">⁹</span>

ומגדף בה ר' אבהו א"ה היינו דכתיב (עמוס ו, ז) לכן עתה יגלו בראש גולים משום דמשתינים מים בפני מטותיהם ערומים יגלו בראש גולים

Now, R'Jose son of R'Hanina said: This refers to people who pass water before their beds naked.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Are bereft of the sense of modesty.');">¹⁰</span> But R'Abbahu derided this: If so, see what is written: Therefore shall they now go captive the first that go captive<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Ibid. 7.');">¹¹</span> - because they pass water before their beds naked they shall go captive with the first that go captive! But, said R'Abbahu, this refers to people who eat and drink together, join their couches, exchange their wives and make their couches foul [masrihim] with semen that is not theirs.'<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The children of such are mamzerim.');">¹²</span>

אלא אמר ר' אבהו אלו בני אדם שאוכלין ושותין זה עם זה ומדביקין מטותיהם זו בזו ומחליפין נשותיהם זה לזה ומסריחים ערסותם בשכבת זרע שאינה שלהם

'Then what shall I do? ' he 'asked.' Go after the peaceful,'<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lit., 'silence'.');">¹³</span> he replied.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Take someone from a peaceful family - those who are quarrelsome are probably unfit!');">¹⁴</span>

אמר ליה היכי נעביד אמר ליה זיל בתר שתיקותא כי האי דבדקי בני מערבא כי מינצו בי תרי בהדי הדדי חזו הי מנייהו דקדים ושתיק אמרי האי מיוחס טפי

As the Palestinians<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lit., 'children of the West.'');">¹⁵</span> make a test: When two quarrel, they see which becomes silent first and say: This one is of superior birth. Rab said: Silence [peaceableness] in Babylon, is [the mark of]<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Lit., 'that is'.');">¹⁶</span>

אמר רב שתיקותיה דבבל היינו יחוסא איני והא איקלע רב (לבי בר שפי חלא) ובדק בהו מאי לאו ביחסותא לא בשתיקותא הכי קאמר להו בדוקו אי שתקי אי לא שתקי

pure birth. But that is not so, for Rab visited the family of Shihla<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The reading is doubtful; cur. odd.: vinegar dealers.');">¹⁷</span> and examined them; surely that means as to their genealogy? - No, by silence.

אמר רב יהודה אמר רב אם ראית שני בני אדם שמתגרים זה בזה שמץ פסול יש באחד מהן ואין מניחין אותו לידבק אחד בחבירו אמר ר' יהושע בן לוי אם ראית שתי משפחות המתגרות זו בזו שמץ פסול יש באחת מהן ואין מניחין אותה לידבק בחברתה

He said thus to them:<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' To those who were with him.');">¹⁸</span> Examine [them], whether they are silent [peaceable] or not. Rab Judah said in Rab's name: If you see two people continually quarreling, there is a blemish of unfitness in one of them, and they are [providentially] not allowed to cleave to each other.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' I.e., join in marriage.');">¹⁹</span>

א"ר פפא סבא משמיה דרב בבל בריאה מישון מיתה מדי חולה עילם גוססת ומה בין חולין לגוססין רוב חולין לחיים רוב גוססים למיתה

R'Papa the elder said on Rab's authority: Babylon is healthy; Mesene<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The island formed by the Euphrates, the Tigris and the Royal Canal.');">²⁰</span> is dead; Media is sick, and Elam is dying.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The Jews of Babylon are of pure descent; in Mesene they are all unfit (mamzerim) ; in the other two they are mixed.');">²¹</span> And what is the difference between sick and dying? - Most sick are [destined] for life; most dying are for death.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' The majority of Media are pure; the majority of Elam are mamzerim.');">²²</span>

עד היכן היא בבל רב אמר עד נהר עזק ושמואל אמר עד נהר יואני לעיל בדיגלת עד היכא רב אמר עד בגדא ואוונא ושמואל אמר עד מושכני ולא מושכני בכלל והאמר רבי חייא בר אבא אמר שמואל מושכני הרי היא כגולה ליוחסין אלא עד מושכני ומושכני בכלל

How far does Babylon extend?<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' In respect of family purity.');">²³</span> - Rab said: As far as the river 'Azak;<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' On the east of the Tigris.');">²⁴</span> Samuel said: as far as the river Wani.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' [Nahrewan, the grand canal east of the Tigris that flows parallel to it. Obermeyer. op. cit. p. 79. Both are given as eastern boundaries of Babylon.]');">²⁵</span>

לתחתית בדיגלת עד היכא אמר רב שמואל עד אפמייא תתאה תרתי אפמייא הויין חדא עיליתא וחדא תתייתא חדא כשירה וחדא פסולה ובין חדא לחדא פרסה וקא קפדי אהדדי ואפילו נורא לא מושלי אהדדי וסימניך דפסולתא הא דמישתעיא מישנית

How far on the upper [reaches of] Tigris? Rab said: as far as Bagda<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' ['Aruch reads: Okbara and Awana. Both towns now on the western bank of the Tigris, but originally on its eastern bank, constituted the northern boundary of Babylon; loc. cit. p. 82.]');">²⁶</span> and Awana; Samuel said: as far as Moxoene.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' A town west of the upper Tigris sources.');">²⁷</span>

לעיל בפרת עד היכא רב אמר עד אקרא דתולבקני ושמואל אמר עד גישרא דבי פרת ור' יוחנן אמר עד מעברת דגיזמא לייט אביי ואיתימא רב יוסף אדרב

Is then Moxoene itself not included? Surely R'Hiyya B'Abba said in Samuel's name: Moxoene is as the land of Exile<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Sc. Babylon. Rashi observes that Pumbeditha is so called in R.H. 23b.');">²⁸</span> in respect to genealogy? - But as far as and including Moxoene.

אדרב לייט אדשמואל לא לייט אלא לייט אדרב וכ"ש אדשמואל ואב"א לעולם אדרב לייט אדשמואל לא לייט וגישרא דבי פרת לתתאיה הוה קאי

How far on the lower reaches of the Tigris? - Said R'Samuel: As far as lower Apamea.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' On the right bank of the Tigris; v. Obermeyer p. 86.');">²⁹</span> There were two Apameas, an upper and a lower; one was fit [in respect to marriage] and the other unfit, and one parasang lies between them; and they [their inhabitants] were particular with each other, and did not even lend fire to each other.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' To avoid intimacy which might lead to marriage.');">³⁰</span> And the sign whereby [you may recognise] the unfit is the one that speaks [the] Mesene [dialect]. How far [does it extend] on the upper reaches of the Euphrates? - Rab said: To Fort Tulbakene.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' V. Obermeyer pp. 94-96; S. Funk, Die Juden in Bob. I, p. 13, n. 2, and infra, n. 8.');">³¹</span> Samuel said: To the bridge of Be-pherat;<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' V. Obermeyer pp. 94-96; S. Funk, Die Juden in Bob. I, p. 13, n. 2, and infra, n. 8.');">³¹</span> R'Johanan said: As far as the ford of Gizama.<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Obermeyer p. 97 on the basis of other readings identifies this with Gidama, mentioned in Suk. 18a. Since R. Johanan's definition is not controverted, this must have been higher up than the other two, v. next note.');">³²</span> Abaye - others state, R'Joseph - cursed Rab's [definition].<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Obermeyer p. 94 assumes that the Fort Tulbakene was lower than Pumbeditha, where both Abaye and R. Joseph were heads of the academy. Hence, this excluded Pumbeditha, which aroused their vehement opposition.');">³³</span> Only Rab's, but not Samuel's!<span class="x" onmousemove="('comment',' Samuel's definition shut out even more, the bridge of Be-Pherat (for which v. Obermeyer p. 97) lying lower than Fort Tulbakene.');">³⁴</span> - But he cursed Rab's, and all the more so Samuel's. Alternatively, he cursed [only] Rab's, after all, and not Samuel's, and the bridge of Be-Pherat [originally] lay below;